Author Topic: Name This Country:  (Read 548 times)

Offline Hamish

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Name This Country:
« on: October 26, 2000, 11:52:00 AM »
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 1STLT
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 7:50 PM
> To: Officers; CPO; 1st Class
> Subject: FW: Name This Country
>
> food for thought..............
>  
> NAME THIS COUNTRY:
> 709,000 regular (active duty) service personnel
> 293,000 reserve troops
> Eight standing Army divisions
> 20 Air Force and Navy air wings with 2,000 combat aircraft
> 232 strategic bombers
> 13 strategic ballistic missile submarines with
> 3,114 nuclear warheads on 232 missiles 500 ICBMs with 1,950 warheads
>
> Four aircraft carriers, and 121 surface combat ships and submarines, plus
> all the support bases, shipyards and logistical assets needed to sustain
> such a naval force.
> Is this country Russia?. . . No
> Red China ? . . . No
> Great Britain ? . . Wrong Again
> France?....Nope..
> USA? . . . You are still wrong
>
>
> Give up??
> Well, don't feel too bad if you are unable to identify this global
> superpower, because this country no longer exists.
> It has vanished.
> These are the American military forces that HAVE DISAPPEARED since the
> 1992 election of Bill Clinton and Al Gore.
>
> Sleep well America, (and VOTE!)
They claim to have reduced federal government, Of course they have, mostly from the military.
Do You want more of this?


Hamish!


[This message has been edited by Hamish (edited 10-26-2000).]

Offline Gunthr

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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2000, 12:22:00 PM »
Those are some disturbing numbers there Hamish. <S>
         
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline Naso

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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2000, 12:31:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Hamish:
[B> 3,114 nuclear warheads on 232 missiles 500 ICBMs with 1,950 warheads
[/B]

This part is not so bad,IMHO.

KABOOM !!!

 

Offline minus

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« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2000, 01:14:00 PM »
not to many country haz that nuklear potential  i thing Izrael or India , anyway cant beleve that force serving for defending that looks more for WW3  

Offline StSanta

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« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2000, 01:34:00 PM »
The US is facing imminent invasion.

You better bring your *defense* forces back up.



------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

Offline Gunthr

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« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2000, 01:44:00 PM »
Hey wait a minute! How can America be everything to everybody as critics imply we should, if we don't have the muscle to cash the lip checks?
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline blur

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« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2000, 01:46:00 PM »
Oh my God! Where did our nuclear warheads go!

I don't think I'm going to able to sleep tonight knowing that we can't totally destroy the earth 35 times over anymore!  

What will we tell our grandchildren?

Hey wait a minute, I don't remember getting any rebate check from all the tax savings.  

Offline leonid

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« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2000, 02:01:00 PM »
Oh, geez!  We're practically defenseless!  I better go get an AK right quick, and get ready for Invasion: Amerika!  Oh! Oh!  Does anyone know of a militia I can join?

...yeah, whatever  


[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 10-26-2000).]
ingame: Raz

Offline Gunthr

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« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2000, 02:12:00 PM »
We need to have enough nuclear warheads. We may have enough now, I don't know. There is more to this than meets the eye.

It's clear that the men aboard the USS Cole would not have died, nor would the ship have been attacked at all if it had refueled at sea. Unfortunately, many of our tankers have been mothballed, so the USS Cole had to refuel in an unsecure port. This is not a political issue.


Here is what Col. David Hackworth had to say on this topic:

"* Navy Chief Adm. Vern Clark followed the Wesley Clark act by stating, when asked why the destroyer wasn't refueled at sea, that there weren't enough oilers to go around.

Adm. Clark, along with the most of the Navy's top brass, has long been silent regarding the state of naval readiness. Candidates George W. Bush and Dick Cheney rightly say readiness stinks, while their opponents Al Gore and Joe Lieberman say it's just peachy keen -- and the Navy brass continue to duck and weave just as the Pentagon did in 1993 when 18 soldiers were killed in Somalia because there were no tanks to protect our troops.

Have Adm. Clark and his fellow gold-stripers shirked their duty by allowing our fleet to be downsized in the past seven years from 435 ships to 311 without telling the president and the candidates that the Navy doesn't have the ships to do the job?

Had they stood tall, an oiler would have been available. Had they fulfilled their sworn duty to their country and their sailors, the USS Cole would have stayed with its battle group -- instead of being dispatched by itself to pick up the slack in the Gulf because there aren't enough warships to accomplish all assigned missions.

Come January, let's hope our new president rebuilds our broken military not only materially, but morally, by putting in top leaders with the guts to hold to their sworn duty."
.
.
.
.
 

"


[This message has been edited by Gunthr (edited 10-26-2000).]
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline F4UDOA

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« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2000, 02:31:00 PM »
Jeez,

What a hand job you got.

Did you read that on the back back of a George W. Bush baseball card?

I give you a scary stat.
When George Bush Senior was president the country was in the worst recession in 60 years and Japans economy was the best it had ever been. During the Clinton/Gore administration the US Economy is the best it has ever been and Japans economy is horrible. Since yes, Al Gore had many of the trade restictions removed and equilized trade with Japan. Bush was known as Japans president you know, and has since worked for Japan as a consultant since he left office.

George Bush also has other sons. Jeb is Govener of Florida and Neil that guy who was running the Savings and Loan industry right before it blew up and cost Americans many Billions of dollars. Of course he walked away without a sniff. And then there is George Junior, a silver spoon, lazy coke head philanderer until the age of 40 when he decides to enter politics with the help of dear old dad. What a guy.

But before you go back to our military is in such bad shape bull, I will share this fact with you. The cold war ended during the Ronald Reagan era which ended in 1988. I entered the USAF in 1986. At the time George Bush entered office in 1988 there was already a mass scaling down of the military.
I know because I was in it. I was an Avionics Tech on C-141B's, E-4/Seargent when the order came down that either you had to re-up for four more years or get out. About half my Squadron was gone by 1990 when they took about 5 different avionics shops and made them one. Then as a civilian I got to make 10 dollars an hour as a field tech for 2 years until I was layed off because technology in the US was dead. Then Clinton gets elected and I'm back working as tech in 1993 and I have been with the same company that has gone from 20million to 250 million in 7 years. And by the way, I'am in the 30% plus tax bracket and Bushes tax breaks don't do toejam for me. So unless you make $200,000 or higher I really don't think this applies to at all. But if you want to send your kids to school Gore with give you a 10,000 tax deduction. So you bet your bellybutton I'm voting for Gore.

The Russians are coming? I don't think so!

F4UDOA  

Offline Gunthr

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« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2000, 03:36:00 PM »
f4UDOA, please consider the following:

At the Republican National Convention in August, Texas Governor George W. Bush reminded the audience about two elite Army divisions that were not ready for combat duty. Vice President Al Gore, speaking before the Veterans of Foreign Wars, claimed that the Clinton/Gore administration had reversed the decline in military readiness, and accused Governor Bush of "running down the troops." Thus began the 2000 presidential debate on the state of military readiness.

Under the circumstances, supporting the troops means facing the truth about readiness in the post-Cold War world. The armed forces are one-third to one-half smaller, but deployments have increased by 300% since 1991. The Kosovo air war, which revealed shortages in everything from cruise missiles to carriers, demonstrated the consequences of asking the armed forces to do much more with far less.

The July edition of CMR Notes, titled "Are America’s Armed Forces Better Off Today?" (Part I), discussed the consequences of unprecedented social engineering in the military. This edition (Part II) highlights and summarizes significant news stories that provide real-world insight into the state of morale and readiness in the military.

National defense should not be a partisan issue, but it is absurd to suggest that it is somehow "unpatriotic" to discuss the state of military preparedness in a presidential election year. The voters are about to elect a new commander-in-chief. If not now, when? The American military is still the finest in the world, but there are numerous problems that the next president will have to address. The first step in solving readiness problems is to first admit that they exist. n

INTRODUCTION

To provide an overview of the state of military readiness, this edition of CMR Notes highlights contemporary headlines and summarizes stories from major American newspapers, the military press, and government reports. This compendium of news dispatches from the year 2000 (unless otherwise indicated) is not all-encompassing. Some situations may have changed since these stories were written, but new ones are reported every day. Taken as a whole, the headlines chronicle a worrisome trend of problems that must be addressed by the next commander-in-chief. n

 

 ARMY

"Two Army Divisions Unfit for War – Both Flunk Ratings of Preparedness" – Washington Post, Nov. 10, 1999

"Army Says Strained Resources Leave Troops Unprepared for War" – New York Times, Nov. 10, 1999

The two Army divisions spotlighted by Governor Bush during his acceptance speech were the subject of numerous news reports in November of 1999. The elite 10th Mountain and First Infantry Divisions, based in Fort Drum, NY and Germany, respectively, had received classified ratings of C-4, the lowest ranking for readiness. Evaluation criteria had been established by Congress, in order to measure the ability of U.S. forces to wage two major wars at nearly the same time. None of the Army’s ten divisions were ranked C-1, the highest ranking for readiness.

The low ratings were not the fault of the soldiers, but a consequence of administration policies in the Balkans. Roughly half of the two units in question were deployed to Bosnia and Kosovo—landlocked countries lacking a decent airfield or seaport. Swift re-deployment elsewhere—to train for and participate in a "major theater of war" (MTW) contingency—would be exceedingly difficult.

Army Chief of Staff Gen. Erik Shinseki responded to the news by ordering that personnel vacancies in the Army’s divisions overseas be filled with soldiers from non-divisional support units, including the Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC).

Nine months later, the two divisions mentioned by Governor Bush have returned to their home bases, and different troops have been sent to the Balkans in their place. Gen. Hugh Shelton, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has claimed that all ten Army divisions are now fully manned and ready for combat. That may depend, however, on the definitions of "combat" and "ready" for a "two-major-war" contingency. Kosovo and Bosnia are still landlocked, and transportation options remain limited.

In an August 29 response to questions from the Center for Military Readiness, Army spokesman Maj. Thomas Collins said that readiness ratings have improved because "new planning considerations have enabled division commanders to make a more accurate assessment of their units’ ability to support a Major Theater of War contingency when transitioning from a Small Scale Contingency (SSC)….the timelines for deployment of the divisions to a MTW have been adjusted to better enable them to meet contingency requirements."

Defense analyst Dr. John Hillen, an Army veteran of Desert Storm, remains unconvinced. In a message to CMR, Hillen wrote:

"Readiness problems manifest themselves slowly over time and get fixed only slowly and deliberately. The idea that the Army’s well publicized readiness problems of 1998 – late 1999 are suddenly and magically fixed is simply not true. Clearly the Army has used the sorts of accounting tricks that have plagued readiness reporting for thirty years in order to suddenly become ‘ready.’ Language such as [that quoted above] is code for ‘We couldn’t meet the standard so we lowered the bar.’ " n

 

"Army Training Centers Get Failing Grades – Twelve of 20 Combat Schools Rank ‘C-4’" – Washington Times, Aug. 29

"ROCK BOTTOM - Training Centers Report They Can’t Meet Mission"– Army Times, Sept. 11

According to a confidential report obtained by Rowan Scarborough, 12 of 20 Army combat and support training centers were recently rated C-4—last in terms of readiness. Maj. Gen. Tony Stricklin, Commander of the Army Field Artillery School at Fort Sill, OK, wrote: "In the three-year period since the time I was assistant commandant to now, I have never seen a resource picture so bleak….Let me clearly state the U.S. Army Field Artillery School is nearing an unready state for training artillery soldiers."

In addition to Field Artillery, 12 C-4 grades were given for training in Air Defense, Aviation (including helicopters), Chemical Weapons, Combined Arms, Engineering, Finance, Infantry, Intelligence, Military Police, Communications/Signal Corps, and Transportation. Higher C-3 ratings were earned by Armor, Basic Combat, Language, Ordnance, Quartermaster, and Warrant Officer Career Center training units. Only the JFK Special Warfare and Chaplain units rated as high as C-2. n

"They Weren’t Ready – General Says Task Force Hawk Aviators Unprepared for Challenges in Kosovo" – Army Times, July 5, 1999

A "lessons learned" e-mail memo to Army Chief of Staff Gen. Erik Shinseki from Brig. Gen. Richard Cody, who oversaw Task Force Hawk in Kosovo, affirmed that Apache helicopter missions there last year were hampered by a shortage of pilots and warrant officers. The memo, which was not intended for public circulation, said that aviation officers and soldiers performed superbly under tough conditions, but the unit’s first three weeks in theater were "painful and high risk."

Of the pilots available, 65% had less than 500 hours in the Apache cockpit. In the co-pilot gunner position, none were qualified to use night-vision goggles. Although German restrictions on night flights accounted for some training deficiencies, Gen. Cody noted that "Across the Army, we are seeing the results of many years of declining resources and resource constraints, in terms of funds for training and equipment." Despite a grueling series of mission rehearsal exercises in which two Apaches crashed and two pilots died, Task Force Hawk was never sent into combat. n

Red Ratings for Readiness

According to CNN military reporter Jamie McIntyre, an U.S. Army report released on April 4 indicated that 40% of the helicopter fleet is not combat ready, and concluded that. "Clearly, aviation is headed in the wrong direction." A plan for modernization of the fleet noted that "Just over 40% of the rotary wing is ‘red’ in terms of age and war-fighting capability." The report defined a "red" rating as "cannot perform mission, and/or high risk." (CNN, Apr. 5) n

 

"Despite Billions for Defense, Lowly GIs Get Obsolete Gear" – San Diego Union-Tribune, Aug. 30

David Wood reported that infantry sergeants in the 10th Mountain division are still waiting for lightweight combat gear that was promised more than two years ago. Many soldiers are using hand-me-down gear so ancient that it is actually on display at the National Infantry Museum at Fort Benning, GA, along with swords and suits of armor. Some soldiers, despairing of ever getting new gear, buy their own. According to a report by the General Accounting Office, the Army lost almost a billion dollars worth of gear in 1998. n

 

NAVY

 "BAND-AID NAVY – How Shortages Are Burning Out Sailors and Wearing Out the Fleet" - Navy Times, May 22

In this cover story, William H. McMichael reported that the Atlantic and Pacific Fleets are so short of maintenance dollars, scheduled heavy shipyard maintenance work for 15 ships was canceled this year. Without additional funds, critical work on 25 other ships, plus 18 more, will be skipped or scaled back next year. Absent proper equipment and shipyard time, sailors are sometimes required to do heavy maintenance work, such as removing rust from anchors and chains with manual sandblasting tools.

The standard for maintenance of submarines is much higher, because there is no room for error. Cramped submarines lack back-up equipment that is common on surface ships. Nevertheless, the submarine community also lacks enough money for spare parts, and lost both of its U.S.-based sub tenders to downsizing. The Los Angeles and Trident classes are no longer in production, so parts must be custom-made or cannibalized from "donor" subs. Parts swapping is especially prevalent on the Tridents, which come in for just 18 days before returning to sea with a fresh crew. n

"Workload Swamps Ship Maintenance Depots" - Navy Times, May 22

McMichael also reported that in 1995, there were three Shore Intermediate Maintenance Activity (SIMA) facilities in the Hampton Roads, VA area. Now there is just one. Due to stepped-up deployments, the maintenance workload has drastically increased, but units are seriously undermanned. Commanding officers express pride in the sailors’ hard work, but also know that frustration with the work load hurts morale and contributes to personnel losses. n

"Navy Officer Gives Readiness Warning – Planes Not Fit to Fight" – Washington Times, May 3, 1999

In an unusual "hazard report" submitted to Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Jay Johnson, a Navy commandeer warned that shortages of aircraft, spare parts and training hours created a safety threat in his squadron of carrier-based E-2C Hawkeye radar reconnaissance planes. The unnamed commander wrote that "over the past year, we have not been given the tools necessary to do [our mission]. We’ve merely been fighting for survival." He added that the shortage "severely degrades a squadron’s ability to maintain minimum crew proficiency levels….[This is] detrimental to the safety of the lives of everyone involved in launching, flying and recovering aircraft." n

"Keeping Aircraft Flying on a Wing and a Prayer" - Navy Times, May 22

On any given day, one or two of a forward-deployed F-14 Tomcat squadron’s 10 jets are unable to fly because they are in "donor status"—being cannibalized for spare parts. In the non-deployed squadrons, up until a few months before an upcoming cruise, only three or four jets can fly at any given time. According to the Atlantic Fleet Director of Aircraft Material, roughly 10 cannibalizations are performed for every 100 flight hours.

To meet increased demand for aircraft maintenance since January of 1999, personnel at the Oceana NAS Aircraft Intermediate Maintenance Department (AIMD) have had to work three shifts, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. The workload is especially difficult because some units are short-handed, partially deployed on carriers, or filled with unskilled personnel waiting for school openings. The Oceana AIMD, for example, has only 64% of its full allowance of 424 aviation electronics technicians.

Cmdr. Bill Bergin praised the "mission-oriented" Oceana AIMD for "hiding the pain" by working ten-hour shifts. Still, heavy workloads and equipment shortfalls have affected morale and retention rates.

In a May 29 editorial, Navy Times wrote that the downsizing of the fleet, combined with an extraordinary pace of global operations, can explain but not excuse the sorry state of Navy parts and maintenance funding.

"Simply put, sailors are being short-changed by their leaders in uniform and in Washington D.C., who for too long have failed to adequately fund Navy accounts for spare parts and maintenance. …Congress should give the Navy every cent it needs to get itself out of this hole. Combat readiness demands it. And the sailors on the deckplates deserve nothing less." n

"Navy Readiness Woes Run Deep" – "Cannibalizing Parts, and Yes – People" – Navy Times, May 10, 1999

On April 21, Pacific Fleet Commander Adm. Archie Clemins told Congress that the successes of recent missions "mask serious underlying readiness downtrends that must be reversed." In addition to serious concerns about ship maintenance, Adm. Clemins said that the fleet is so short of Tomahawk cruise missiles—more than 500 of which were fired during the Kosovo air war—crews must spend increasing amounts of time transferring weapons from inbound ships to outbound ones.
During a visit to Lemoore NAS, CA, Admiral Clemins found that 43% of the F/A 18 Hornet strike fighters were "not flyable" due to a lack of spare parts, including 61 fewer engines than were needed to keep all the jets flying. A squadron commander said that when one squadron returned from deployment in December of 1998, six of its jets’ engines were pulled "as soon as we came off the cruise." n

"Danzig Foresees Sharp Cuts in Shipbuilding, Repairs" – Navy Times, July 3

Despite all of the problems reported above, plus a projected shortfall in ship-building to match global commitments, Navy Secretary Richard Danzig recently announced a 7-year Program Objective Memorandum (POM-02) that proposes more of the same, and worse.

According to reporter David Brown, Danzig’s spending plan would reduce intermediate maintenance funds from 95% in 2002 and 2003 to 86% of minimum requirements in the out years (2004-2007). The projected rate of ship-building, 6.5 per year, would also fall well below the 8-10 per year experts say is needed to keep the Navy at the 305-ship fleet size considered to be minimally adequate.

The Danzig plan would also reduce aviation flying-hour goals from 83% for 2002-03 and 78% for 2004 through 2007. Aviation depot maintenance will attain goals for 2002 and 2003, but 19 squadrons will fall below depot maintenance goals by 2004, followed by 90 squadrons in 2007. Aviation spare parts would be funded at 85% for the first two years, and drop to 78% in the remaining years. n

"Shortage of Cash for Fuel Leaves Navy Ships Parked at Pier" – Stars and Stripes, Aug. 28

The Pacific Fleet is running short of gas money. Since May, 7th Fleet ships have officially canceled four visits to Far East ports, and many others have been scrubbed even before they officially were scheduled. Fuel consumption and at-sea days are about 60% of what they were during the summer of 1999, one of the 7th Fleet’s busiest quarters ever.

In addition to higher fuel costs, the Navy has been forced to pump extra money into recruiting and unplanned deployments to places like Kosovo and East Timor. Budget shortfalls have caused Atlantic Fleet commanders to slow down or delay ship repairs, while Pacific Fleet commanders have shifted money from the fuel budget to the spare parts budget. n

"Admiral Warns on Navy Budget" – San Diego Union-Tribune, Aug. 24

In an unusually strong comment, the newly-installed three-star commander of Naval Air Forces Pacific warned that the Navy’s budget is so low that it may become impossible to fulfill all its military commitments. Speaking to about 1,000 sailors and civilians on the flight deck of the carrier Constellation, Vice Admiral John Nathman said that if the Navy is expected to deal with "rogue states and bullies," it is only right that "my naval air force be sustained at levels which support our operations and tempo….There is a fundamental disconnect between the value we provide and the willingness of the richest nation on earth to pay for its demands. It is obvious—the naval service is undervalued. This is the challenge—it must be resolved." n

"Navy Pilots Miss the Mark" – CBS News, Sept. 5

David Martin reported that a recent internal report by the Navy’s Inspector General, completed in April, found that funding shortages are hurting the combat performance of naval aviators. Carrier air wings have had to deploy without sufficient training. As a result, "[laser bomb] strike success rates in Iraq and the former Yugoslavia (are) far below those that should be achievable." The IG found that laser-guided bombs—which cost $25,000 each—are so scarce that the first time most Navy pilots get a chance to drop one is in combat. n

 

AIR FORCE

"Skill Level of Pilots in Air Force, Navy Seen as ‘Degraded’ " – Washington Times, Feb. 21

"Combat Training Quality Takes Nose Dive" – AF Times, Feb. 28

After touring the Air Warfare Center at Nellis AFB and the Navy’s Top Gun school at Fallon NAS, NV, a senior Senate defense staff member wrote a comprehensive report on training and equipment shortages, including a lack of aggressor (adversary) aircraft. "At our premier air combat training facilities we have too few instructor pilots, too few aircraft for them to fly; and old, sometimes structurally failing aircraft."

Noting assurances from Defense Secretary William S. Cohen that a downward cycle of such problems had been reversed, the staffer found that new money had not trickled down to the two desert bases. Because some suppliers are no longer in business, some spare parts take 18 months to 2 years to arrive, and cannibalization rates are increasing servicewide. The report also said that Air Force pilots are missing normal training rotations because they are on peacekeeping duty abroad. Combat skills are not refined by flying circles in the skies over southern Iraq. n

"Readiness Hits Lowest Level in 15 Years" – AF Times, May 15

Air Force readiness to fight a war slumped in recent months to its lowest level in 15 years, declining 28% since the end of the Cold War. Only 65% of the force’s combat units were operating at the military’s best levels of readiness in December and January. That means roughly 115 of its 329 combat units were not fully capable of performing their mission. The 65% rating compares with 95% readiness in 1989 and 76% at the end of 1998. n

"General Says War Stretches U.S. Forces" – Washington Post, Apr. 30, 1999

"Service to Convert Nuclear Bombs to Avert Cruise Missile Shortfall" – AF Times, May 17, 1999

Gen. Richard Hawley, head of the Air Combat Command, said the Air Force has been sorely strained by the Kosovo conflict and would be hard-pressed to handle a second war in the Middle East or Korea. Hawley said that the accelerated air campaign would increase shortages of aircraft and experienced crews in the U.S.

Five weeks of bombing Yugoslavia left U.S. munitions stocks critically short, not just of air-launched cruise missiles, but also satellite-guided Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAMs) dropped by B-2 stealth bombers. According to a House Armed Services Committee report, a stockpile of 250 conventional cruise missiles dwindled to only 80 following heavy air strikes in Iraq and Serbia. Congress approved $51.5 million in emergency funds to convert 95 nuclear missiles into conventional ones. n

"WORKED TO DEATH – How Doing Too Much Cost 12 Crewmen Their Lives" – AF Times, Mar. 29, 1999

Bryant Jordan reported that the September 1998 collision of two PAVE Hawk helicopters from Nellis AFB, in which 12 crewmen died, was an accident five years in the making. Investigators found that factors contributing to the disaster included "a high operations/personnel tempo coupled with leadership problems, internal and external training deficiencies…[and] low aircrew experience level." Previous reports from local commanders had warned of problems with the "run-ragged squadron," but nothing substantial was done. Gen. Richard Hawley, Air Combat Commander at Langley AFB, told Jordan that he worries every night about another crash happening, due to stress and a lack of spare parts in combat squadrons. n

"House Panel Gets an Earful on Woes of Overburdened Forces" – AF Times, Mar. 15, 1999

A congressional panel headed by Military Readiness Sub-Committee Chairman Rep. Herbert Bateman (R-VA) heard abundant testimony at a Nellis AFB field hearing about missed opportunities at the Air Force’s Red Flag (air combat training) exercises, and a decline in fundamental land war-fighting proficiency at the Army’s National Training Center. Rear Adm. Timothy Beard, commander of NAS Fallon, said that only 8 or 9 of the 22 F-18 Hornets assigned to the base were available to fly each day. Rep. Jim Gibbons (R-NV) spoke of "a gap the size of the Grand Canyon" between what the committee heard there and what they hear from Pentagon officials in Washington D.C. n


MARINES

"Commanders Compete for Aircraft Carrier" – Copley News, Apr. 4, 1999

The carrier Theodore Roosevelt, ordered to move from the Mediterranean to the Adriatic Sea to join the NATO air war over Kosovo, was the object of a struggle between Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni, commander-in-chief in the Persian Gulf region, and Army Gen. Wesley Clark, the NATO supreme commander. The carrier Kitty Hawk was later sent from Japan to relieve the Roosevelt, which temporarily left the Pacific without a permanently assigned carrier for the first time since World War II. n

"Marines Halt Flights of Aircraft" – Reuters, Aug. 28

The Marine Corps announced it had temporarily halted flights of three different types of aircraft, including all VF-22 Osprey tilt rotor troop helicopters, for safety inspections. In July, 76 Harrier fighter jets were grounded. The flight suspension of all Sea Stallion transport (average age 30 years) and A-1W Cobra attack helicopters (dating back to the 1960s) was described as a precaution following maintenance inspections. The replacement Osprey aircraft is still 15 years away from reaching full operational capability. n

 

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE

"Record Deployments Take Toll on Military" – Washington Times, Mar. 28

The U.S. military was sent on an unprecedented 48 overseas missions in the 1990s to places such as Iraq, the Balkans, Haiti, and East Timor. In addition, troops have performed hurricane and earthquake-relief work in Guam and Central America. By contrast, the military was sent on only 20 such missions in the 15 years between the U.S. exit from Vietnam and the end of the Cold War.

At the same time, the active duty force was shrunk by 800,000 troops, from 2.2 million to 1.4 million—a 40% reduction. The Army was cut from 18 to 10 divisions; the Navy went from 567 ships to just over 300; and the Air Force lost almost half of its 24 fighter wings. n

"Readiness of Armed Forces is Not Improving" – Washington Times, Aug. 28

The Bush administration planned a measured drawdown of 25% in the Defense Department budget over five years. But in 1993, the Clinton administration doubled the planned cuts to $128 billion. The Defense budget has now dropped to about 2.9% of the nation’s Gross Domestic Product (down from 4.2% of GDP in 1992)—a depth not reached since before Pearl Harbor. n

* * * * *
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline F4UDOA

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« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2000, 04:23:00 PM »
Gunthr,

Wow, I got to hand it to you. Did you have that stuff laying around your living room?
That's allot of data.

Anyway my point in all of that was never to boast about the readyness of the military. But what I can tell you is this. The Gore plan for military spending is over triple the Bush plan. I know this is true because Bush admitted this during the debates. Specifically the third debate which I watched live.

This is also true. Gore volenteered for service in Veitnam as an enlisted man and Bush had a deferrment to the national gaurd.

The third piece of this puzzle is that the dimantling of the military began late in the Reagan administration and continued through the Bush years. The Clinton administration passed a bill increasing the pay for soldiers for the first time in many years.

Looking at the conflicts you mentioned one at a time.

1. Iraq
A. Iraq is left over from Bushes administration which up until the invasion of Kuwait was shipping arms to Saddam and condoning his activities including bio-warefare, nuclear research and a tyranical government.

B. After winning the war we leave Saddam in office and leave Millions of Kurdish rebels hanging in the breeze to die at the hands of Sadam. Which has already happened. Was Bush aware of this? Yes, he was the ex-chief of the CIA. Of course he knew.

C. He leaves this problem in Clinton's hands.
Is Clinton supposed to redeploy Thousands of troops and equipment at a cost of billions of dollars? He is in a catch-22 and has done a good job of containing Bushes creation without casualties.

2. Kosovo
 A. Another leftover from the end of the cold war. Again minimal loss of American life, tactical bombing with very low loss and the people of Serbia have voted him out peacefully. Situation handeled and complete.

3. Somalia
 A. Again started during Bushes reign. Was a good idea at first that got ugly. Clinton removed all US presense after that ugly incident were we lost men and choppers.
Just like Veitnam, you can't halp people that don't want your help. Again we left a place were we had no business being.

B. You say that there were no tanks there. True, however that was a military decision not a polical one. If you say that is Clintons fault then you should blame Reagan for not allowing troops in Beruit to carry ammo in 1981. An event which caused many more life's and lasted much longer than Somalia.

I am not an Isolationest by any means but I can tell you this. I have seen George W. Bush speak in the debates under pressure and he is not a sharpe or aggressive man. If he is involved in the mid-east negotiations he will be eaten for lunch. I have Family in Israel and I can tell you that the middle east culture does not respect weakness. He looks like a dear in the headlights sometimes. Especially in the last debate.
The same thing can be said of Slavic coutries like Russia and Serbia. I wouldn't send a poodle in to argue with Pitbulls.
Kapish

Later
F4UDOA

BTW, lets keep this civil. I promise I will.

Offline Hamish

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« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2000, 05:07:00 PM »
First: Thanks Gunthr, for the support  

Second: Yes the one stat i think is a good thing is the Nuke one, i don't want a nuclear war any more than the next guy, but  while we have disposed of a lot of our nuclear arsenal, the tactics of various groups stating that we had enough firepower to destroy the earth "35 times over" is a pretty ridiculous figure. Show me a scientific study that proves or disproves such nonsense.

Thirdly: I am in the military Right Now. U.S. Navy, almost 7 years and am an E-6. My main job is operating/maintaining the Fire Control System onboard my ship. I've been on three 6 month deployments in the last 4 and a half years, 1 to the Arabian Gulf (Persian Gulf), 2 to the Med/Adriatic. I've watched everything from training exercises to spare parts money go away. If i had a nickle for everytime i had to wait weeks or even months to get a vital part to keep my weapons system operational, i'd be able to retire right now. The common answer to why it takes so long is "we ran out of "repairables" money for the quarter already." My weapons system is the main defense my ship has against a cruise missile attack. If any of you remember what happened to the U.S.S. Stark, It's my job to prevent that from happening. Since Clinton/Gore came into office, I have watched my workcenter decline from 7 people to 4. I have 3 watchstations to man 24/7 when out at sea. you do the math, think we get a whole lot of sleep?

F4UDOA, in your post you state that the decline of the military started late in the Reagan term, and continued through the Bush/Clinton terms. Reagan built the military up more than any of the 3 (he wanted a 600 ship navy), and if so you state, that it was reagan/bush that started it, Clinton could have easily prevented it. By your reasoning, if i interpret this correctly, It's Clinton/Gore's lack of attention to military readiness that caused it to be drawn back so far?
     My oldest son is 4 years old now. I have been in port for 1 of his birthdays. Right now, every 18 months a ship makes a major deployment (6 months). starting approximately 8-10 months prior to that deployment, refresher training begins, which normally consists of, 2-4 weeks out at sea at a time, a week or 2 in port, another 2-4 weeks at sea, etc. until about 4 months before deployment. Then we do 2 important exercises, of about a month, and the other about 6 weeks. then 30 days of stand down before deployment. If we had more ships, this rigorous training cycle could be relaxed some, and i might be able to spend more time at home watching my children grow up. Do i regret the choice i made of joining the Navy? not at all, I serve my country with pride.  Thank you F4UDOA, for serving in your time as well. Maybe i am too biased by being too close to the subject matter of the debate here, but this is how i feel about it. I don't feel that someone from the current administration, is going to realisticly improve the current state of our military.

One other thing real quick, you state that Clinton admin. passed the first increase in pay for service members in many years? this is not exactly true: We get a pay raise every year. for at least 5 out of the 8 years of clintons administration, the percentage was less than the inflation rate. What he did was the highest Percentage boost since Reagan. reagan's was 8. something percent, clintons was 6. something. how he set it up was they did our normal 2. something pay raise in Jan. and then delayed the rest until July, making it seem like he gave us a raise.Basically what clinton did was try to catch the military up with inflation, but it still wasn't enough.
<S!> for your ideas, but since you left the military, i think you may have grown a bit out of touch with thier situation.

regards,

Hamish!

EDIT: For the record, i have transited through the red sea to the persian gulf 4 times, only once was my ship in company with another ship, and that was because we had a casualty to one of our weapons systems that we were awaiting parts for, and needed an escort to insure defensive capability in the narrow straits of Hormuz.

[This message has been edited by Hamish (edited 10-26-2000).]

Offline F4UDOA

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« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2000, 11:55:00 PM »
Hamish<S>,

I do and always will have allot of respect for those in active service. It is not easy to do what you do and not be emotional about the condition of the armed forces.

Question, you have been in for 6 years. Did you go in after high school as I did?

I was a republican when I was active and after a couple of years of a bad economy(91, 92) as a civilian I became a democrat. This was because I believed the training I received would be worth something when I got out. When I found the technogy job market unbearable I became very discouraged. During the Clinton years I have watched the industry boom incredibly. I work with many ex-servicemen who have been able to use there training to make quite a living. When your time is up I know you will want the same opportunity to use your skills.

When it comes to Gore/Bush. I know that Gore is willing to spend 3 times as much as Bush on Military spending. This was clearly stated by Bush himself on the issue.
Also consider that Gore volenteered for service as an enlisted man in Veitnam while Bush had a differment to the national guard.

The other piece is ex-president George Bush. War hero yes. But he played both sides of the fence a little to much. Remember that allot of the weapons that may be pointed at you in the Gulf by Iraq were paid for by your tax dollars. He was also the Vice president during the Hostages for arms contraversey of the Iran hostage crises.
Reagan claimed ignorance during this issue but Bush was the ex-director of the CIA. I hardly think he was unaware. Also Bush agreed to take 3 billion dollars from Japan during Desert Storm(most was never paid).
Remember the US receives only 20% of it's oil from the Gulf. Japan however releys more heavily on oil from the Gulf. In essence you could say that we fought that war to protect Japans economy. I don't like the idea of blood money for soldiers. In any case the apple never falls far from the tree.

Just some stuff to ponder

Later
F4UDOA    

Offline Gunthr

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« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2000, 10:40:00 AM »
<SALUTE> Hammish and F4UDOA for your service  

I'm only concerned about one issue in this discussion, which was pointed out by Hamish.  I don't want it to get wrapped around the axle...

The US Military readiness level doesn't match the expectations that have been placed on it.

You might think that the US Military's mission is to protect the USA, but actually, the mission that has been foisted on our military's back is the protection of Western Civilization.

We need to do a reality check and change one side of the equation or we face more military disasters.

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