Canopy Frames Kill My Gunnery!

[rauchen]

First of, don't tell me to get track-ir.  Yes - I'd love to, but it's not an option unless it comes with a divorce attorney.

I love the FW-190, esp the A-8 except that I can't see past the thick frames.  I can't tell you how many gun solutions I lose because the guy I'm setting up is COMPLETELY lost behind one of the frames.

As an example, a pony I was setting up managed to almost complete a rolling scissor while hidden behind the frame - when I thought he was going to pop out in front of my guns for a shot he suddenly appeared in the triangle to the side, pulling away - Had I been able to pop my head around the frame an inch I would have seen the move developing & used my superior roll rate to cut him off & he'd have been lathered with 20mm and rinsed with 50 cal.

I have the same prob with the P-38 and 109.

In real life we have binocular vision & the ability to move our head to see around the frames.  Too many of the planes are handicapped by the 3D modelling of the frames & folks with Track IR have a HUGE advantage (IMHO).  While thick framing is truly a real life handicap, it's much greater in this simulated environment.

This sounds like a gripe. Sorry.

Here's my question - How do you deal with the thick framing of some of the planes?  

Please don't tell me to fly a Pony or P-40, either.

I have Yucca's views & I'm thinking that the 8 key view over the nose may help, but not solve the problem.

Any useful suggestions welcomed!

[zorstorer]

Just pull your view back as far as possible and move your sight till it just touches the top of you sight glass.  Easy as pie

[bozon]

Also, you can have 2 forward views:
"Neutral view" - you press nothing
"forward view" - that can be assigned to a key/button

Set the "forward view" to be different so you can press it to look over the nose or from close to the panel or from the side, around the bars.

If you use the keyboard for views (like I do) other weird key combinations that contradict each other, give you even more forward views. On the keypad:
4+6 (right and left)
8+1 (forward and back left)
8+3 (forward and back right)
etc...

You can save a different head position for each.

[The Fugitive]

I fly the 38 most of the time, so I know what your saying. In my case I use a couple of these tips posted here.

I do move my view back as much as I can. Using combinations of views (fron t, front/left and so on) helps you to see around the bars.

I use a second front view. Mine is a zoomed in view raised up in the seat a bit to help see over the nose. Most of my shots are taken from a "lead" possition so Im tracking in front of their flight path, so tha t is the view that helps the most. Some people use a left front raised seat view.

I have CH equipment. On the CH throttle they have a mini joystick. I have set this up to move my "head" around in each view. This helps to keep an eye on a guy hiding behind bars and such.

[Balsy]

Get a divorce,  then you can get the TIR.

Balsy

[Dichotomy]

with child support, alimony, and the expense of occasional female companionship? not hardly.

[BaldEagl]

Well, you could always move your head one inch using the arrow keys and/or the page up/page down keys... or you could keep your nose pointed at him.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by The Fugitive
I have CH equipment. On the CH throttle they have a mini joystick. I have set this up to move my "head" around in each view.

Could you please describe how you managed this?  Sounds like a great idea.

- oldman

[The Fugitive]

at work right now, so going by this old memory....

go to map controllers in the game, make sure your in mode 1, select the throttle controller. I think you have to click a "map anolog input", or not   but once you find the axis for the mini joystick ( move it around a bit to see the numbers move) "modify" it and one of the choices will be head position I think, its pretty easy to figure out which is which, and enable it.

I had to set a bit of deadband into it because I was getting a gittery view, like after a hard night of drinking This sometime leads to the view not always returning to center, but a quick flick to another view will return it no problem.

If ya can figure it out from this, let me know and I'll do a step by step from home tonight.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by The Fugitive
at work right now, so going by this old memory....

go to map controllers in the game, make sure your in mode 1, select the throttle controller. I think you have to click a "map anolog input", or not   but once you find the axis for the mini joystick ( move it around a bit to see the numbers move) "modify" it and one of the choices will be head position I think, its pretty easy to figure out which is which, and enable it.

I had to set a bit of deadband into it because I was getting a gittery view, like after a hard night of drinking This sometime leads to the view not always returning to center, but a quick flick to another view will return it no problem.

If ya can figure it out from this, let me know and I'll do a step by step from home tonight.

Thanks, will give it a try!
- oldman

[Krusty]

Originally posted by rauchen
In real life we have binocular vision & the ability to move our head to see around the frames.

Yes, and no. Mostly no.

Yes we have binocular vision. Yes we can move our head around. No it really wouldn't help much. When I'm driving I just have the frame between the front and rear doors over my left shoulder, but it seriously causes a blind spot for me. It's not just a matter of moving my head around it, as that doesn't help much. The frame is only a few inches wide, no more than the thick frame of the 190.

So, you'd still have a problem even if somehow 2 eyes were modeled in this game.


I've flown the 190 a lot. My suggestions are thus:

- save your views! Adjust and change views for EVERY angle, this includes up, up-rear, up-fore-left and right, up-rear-left and right, down-fore-left and right, and down-rear-left and right.

Save all your views, and use F7 (snap) mode. Now, map your forward view key to "foreward-up".

Then it's just how you fly to get the target in your view. Keep your nose low until you're about to fire, then nose up to fire. You have to pull higher than the target to lead, but if you're missing under-the-nose-shots regularly you need a bit more practice (those are "iffy" shots anyways, expect to miss and you won't be disappointd).

If you see a target pulling Gs, cut into his turn, bank so you can see him coming into your side triangle window, then bank quickly and fire your guns with the right amount fo lead. This is also very true in the P-38, aim through your side-front window panes, let him fly into your shot that way.

ALWAYS, repeat ALWAYS keep your eye on the target.* You should never lose sight of him in your cockpit framing. If he goes behind it, use your free hand to move your arrow keys to slide the head around. Or look forward/left if he's behind your left canopy frame -- if you have your head positions saved properly this will really help get him from behind that frame. Don't forget, banking your plane doesn't hurt, as you have a very fast roll rate and can re-position quickly, but it will help your view, especially with under-the-nose targets.

* = not counting checking your 6

[GunnerCAF]

I use two forward views, as Bozon said.  When I move the hat foward, it moves my POV forward,  You can look around any obstructions by moving forward and back.  I like to fly the FW, and it works with any plane.

If you take some time settng up all your views, you can good coverage all around.  

Gunner

[Bruv119]

I've played other games where the cockpit dash can be eliminated so u can fly with a HUD.  Of course making deflection shots in a turn become easy.

Think of a pilot in WW2 how the hell did they manage to shoot with a big engine infront of them.   Get used to it and follow the instructions to move the pilot around with the arrow and page up keys hit f10 to save the position.

Just out fly your opponent so that a rear six shot is there.  Obviously newer and older players will try and take a HO or deflection shot but thats where your meant to move outta the way!

It will be hard at first but you will soon get used to it.

[BaldEagl]

Originally posted by Bruv119
Think of a pilot in WW2 how the hell did they manage to shoot with a big engine infront of them.

Not to get off topic but I take a lot of "blind lead" shots with an enemy under my nose in a turn.  It's something I've spent almost 11 years working on and while probably not the best of shots it can be quite effective.

I also take a lot of "blind deflection" shots.  Those where I have to pull so many G's I'm actually blacked out or push so many I'm redded out as I pull the trigger.  These usually come at the final second as I pass on a merge.  Success rates on these are sightly higher.

It's all in judging the timing.

Given that, a pillar in my way is nothing.  I don't even mind the bird cage canopies so many detest but I am used to using my arrow/page up/page down keys in conjunction with my view keys in flight (but I'm left handed; joystick in left hand, num pad/arrow keys in right, throttle mapped to mouse wheel in right, hat switch mapped to other functions).

[rauchen]

Yup - I've mapped my views to get the most out of them - I started with Yucca's zipped zersion and modified them.

I have an alternate forward view that I'm messing with.  I'll try the forward+right, forward+left view too to get teh frame out of the way.

As for getting on someone's 6 - Have you flown the FW?  Not really a turn fighter.  I can get on their 6 right up to the point where they start turning.

The best bet is to use the AWESOME roll rate to make the shot as Krusty points out by tracking the nme left & right instead of up & down.

I'll have to try the mapping a few others like 7+9 to maybe move the top cross frame out of the way.

As for the blind over the nose shots - I'll take those when I've got a massive ammo loadout, less when I'm running low.  I've gotten some lucky shots for sure - mostly with 50 cal mg - must be a muzzle velocity.  I can't say I've tried shooting much blacked or redded out, though.

Thanks for the suggestions!

-Shmoken