Author Topic: The Armed Citizen  (Read 1219 times)

Offline ravells

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The Armed Citizen
« Reply #60 on: March 31, 2007, 01:50:53 PM »
Thank you, Dynamite....that illustrated exactly what I was trying to say.

Ravs

Offline Elfie

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The Armed Citizen
« Reply #61 on: March 31, 2007, 10:32:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DYNAMITE
You're right... I was just comparing gun deaths and not including deterred assaults/ B&E's.   But I leave it up to the pro gun folks to provide that statistic.

I included Suicides because while someone earlier said something like "they'd just jump of buildings" or something to that effect... its not necessarily true.  Women actually have more suicide attempts then men, but the successful suicide rate is nearly 5x greater for men than women.  Thats because men use means of higher lethality, ie guns.

I work in mental health... and quite frankly, anything that will lower the risk of a successful suicide is pretty sweet in my book.   I guess I've seen to many families torn apart by this.


One of my brothers committed suicide a number of years ago. He didn't use a gun, he hung himself from a light fixture. Once someone becomes determined to end it all, it doesn't really matter what method they use.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline SteveBailey

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The Armed Citizen
« Reply #62 on: March 31, 2007, 10:45:14 PM »
Quote
was to back off the assumptions that those of us who don't carry are cowards,


I need you to understand that the entire gun lobby does not feel this way.  I won't speak for others but I will for myself:  I believe whether you own/carry is a personal choice that each person makes based on criteria in his/her life.  I do not feel those who choose not to carry are cowards.  

I must add, however, I feel that those who choose not to carry and try to force laws upon me that would preclude me from carrying are the enemy of the Constitution and the enemy of my freedoms as an American citizen.

Choose whether or not to carry, leave that choice to me as well.


Steve

Offline Shuffler

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The Armed Citizen
« Reply #63 on: March 31, 2007, 11:47:47 PM »
I have an uncle that commited suicide... that is just a cowards way out. Having a gun had nothing to do with it... he was an ATF Officer.

We spend too much time defending the weak and supporting them.. they go have kids and carry on their families weak stance tradition.... thereby weakening the nation as a whole.

If someone does not chose to defend their family or protect their home.. it is of no consequence to me.... but don't say I can't.


rant rant rant.... oh and rave   :aok

Last week 2 people died here because they had no gun...... the week before 2 criminals died, because they were not the only one's with a gun.
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline x0847Marine

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The Armed Citizen
« Reply #64 on: April 01, 2007, 01:56:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
I don't believe I have ever seen anyone on the pro personal firearm side say that a person who refuses to admit the importance that one should personally be armed for the greater good lacks courage.  


I'd rather some dude on the intardnet thinks I "lack courage", than be buried brave.

Offline Shuckins

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The Armed Citizen
« Reply #65 on: April 01, 2007, 08:05:01 AM »
Well, I'm late getting to this discussion, but let me offer up a few points for thought.

The use of deadly force in defense of one's life, the lives of one's family, and of one's property, has been seen by most, since before the dawn of civilization, as an inalienable right of the individual.  The type of weapon used to carry out that defense was of no consequence as far as the ruling governments were concerned.  The criminal class was rightly seen as being composed of predatory scum with no redeeming social qualities and was treated as such.  

Being unwilling to spend vast amounts of money to incarcerate murderous thugs, these countries simply did away with them.  While such a policy might do little to control a psychopath, it sent a chilling message to the punks and "gang-bangers":  If caught, you're dead.

As a consequence, most countries possessing local and central governments composed of men with a pragmatic approach to law enforcement and a hard-nosed resolve have been largely able to control their streets and their criminal class.  Such a government made no attempt to disarm the law-abiding who, knowing that their government had their backs, fought back with a vengeance.

If our streets are now unsafe it is because that type of government, at least at the national level, no longer exists in the United States.

 Law enforcement policy no longer condones individual resistance, it condemns it.  That policy is controlled by elements within our society that believe that its' criminal elements should be "rehabilitated," and if they cannot be rehabilited, murderers and psychopaths should be incarcerated in perpetuity.

As a result, the criminal no longer has to fear for his life, except under the following circumstances:  running afoul of other criminals;  running afoul of an armed citizen.  In the second instance, the very governments charged with maintaining the security of our streets are, in effect, aiding that criminal class in taking control of our streets.

The righteous citizen who uses deadly force in defense of life, family, and property is no longer seen as being part of the solution to controlling the violent criminal.  That citizen is seen, by certain elements within our government, as being no better than the criminals themselves.

There's the rub.  Those elements that control the government have used its authority, and the power of the media, to bring about a sea-change in the way the government perceives its' own citizens....and in how those citizens perceive themselves and their neighbors.  Now, as a result, many in our society no long trust their fellow citizens to correctly assess a threat and react responsibly.

Instead of executing violent criminals, that government incarcerates them, and tries to rehabilitate them.  A life-sentence carries no fear for them for the imposition of such a sentence by the courts is a mere formality, and they may well be back on the streets in a few years, filled with rage and hardened by physical labor and an idiotic system that allows them to have boxing equipment and barbells to work out with.

That rage and that body stands a very good chance of being turned loose on society, and a population that no long believes that it can use deadly force to resist and believes that it is unjustified in doing so.  Indeed that population believes that the use of deadly force places them "on the criminals' level."

And THAT is why the elderly and the weak and the very young and the lone individual can no longer walk the streets safely.  Street gangs and a rampant drug-culture are merely symptoms of this larger problem.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #66 on: April 01, 2007, 09:35:52 AM »
dynomite.. I disagree with your assessment of the situation even tho you were there and I was not.

If you had a gun and you were trained and confident in it's use you would have been able to make the situation (for you) better.

often, just the air of confidence is enough... worst case, brandishing is plenty.. even worse.. them guys are crazy kind of situation... well.. you shoot.   You don't get into shouting matches or fistfights when you are carrying... you are more polite not less.  If everyone in ny city had a firearm for instance... you wouldn't hear the obcenities yelled at each other like you do walking the streets in that crap hole.

obviously.. not every single person who will not carry is a coward.   There are way too many instances of people watching assaults and even rapes or killings and saying after that "there was nothing I could do"  far more than the stories of unarmed people coming to the aid of their fellows.   If nothing else... an unarmed man is pretty useless in those situations.  

I also agree that I don't care if you carry but.... when you think you have the right to vote on my being armed or not then you are a cowardly enemy of me and all other citizens.

If you are afraid of firearms or don't understand em then stay away from em.. don't talk about em and don't try to mess with other peoples rights.  Just ignore em and be glad that so many law abiding citizens do have the guts and are willing to take the responsibility to carry.

Might as well fear cops having firearms.

lazs