Author Topic: socialism then and now... (Read 853 times)

Boroda · « **Reply #15 on:** November 09, 2007, 05:35:53 PM »

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Originally posted by Shuckins
Socialism is Communism Lite...without the massacres.

You have to educate Yourself, maybe read "Capital for Dummies" (as I did).

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Originally posted by Shuckins
There was nothing "almost racist" about Jack London. He was a complete racist in every sense of the word. Some his less well known stories reveal attitudes about the Indians of the far north that would shock Republicans and leave Democrats catatonic.

He was a firm believer in the superiority of the white race.

Soviet regime kept this side of is personality away from us. I just made this conclusion from some short-stories that were probably translated before the Revolution. Like "Terrible Solomons" that I posted above. Here it sounds like pure humor laughing at a "mom's son", he still is a one even when equipped with a .44 automatic. I have traveled all over USSR from Carpathians to Baikal, I was a "senior" caring for 12-15 years old kids, and I tried to be as far from being mr. Arcwright as possible

Fortunately I didn;t have to shoot at anyone to protect MY kids, but I have been on the edge... Nature is much more dangerous then humans. You can't negotiate with a flood.

Shuckins · « **Reply #16 on:** November 09, 2007, 06:22:41 PM »

Well, Boroda, exactly what part of that statement did you disagree with? The part about the resemblances between Communism and Socialism? Or the part about the massacres?

The resemblances are real, at least in as far as their goal to redirect capital from one group to another in the name of equality. They differ only in the means used to achieve that end. In Russia, the communist movement was corrupted at its source by a bloodthirsty, megalomaniacal Georgian....and in China by his smiling, ideological twin. Between the two of them, they murdered more of humanity than was lost in both World Wars combined.

By contrast, socialism is a far more peaceful, albeit insidious movement. Insidious in that it grows slowly, but surely, by turning citizens of a country into a population of dependency. Individual initiative and responsibility for one's own welfare are usually casualties of socialistic government. All in the name of equality and compassion.

No thank you. You can keep both systems. I prefer to be a wolf, not a sheep.

Gh0stFT · « **Reply #17 on:** November 09, 2007, 06:47:47 PM »

*shudder*

yeah i read about it, socialism states in the 21. century
must be horror to live there and even have kids and a good paid job,
have the freedom to move where you like, even have HDTV !

yes real horror!

moot · « **Reply #18 on:** November 09, 2007, 06:59:17 PM »

They are ghostft. I am sick of people not attempting to do anything more than the basic average, or sitting on their laurels collecting financial help, and of seeing my paycheck deducted for things I don't even use.
I'm sick of the near-obsession of others that you should have to mind their business, that there's anything to gain from deminishing other's piece of their pie, esp. when it's either out of spite or so you can have that piece for yourself.

There's tons of taxes on the paycheck here that instead of going to old people (bosses) should either disappear, or better yet (if you have to subsidize something) should go to younger employees, as a 401k or something.
It makes no sense that you should have your earned paycheck fly off from your pocket and land in the bosses'.
There's a lot more stuff like this, but I don't have the patience to type it all out.

Socialism is scum.

Boroda · « **Reply #19 on:** November 09, 2007, 07:14:29 PM »

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Originally posted by Shuckins
Well, Boroda, exactly what part of that statement did you disagree with? The part about the resemblances between Communism and Socialism? Or the part about the massacres?

Both.

We have a different cultural background.

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Originally posted by Shuckins
The resemblances are real, at least in as far as their goal to redirect capital from one group to another in the name of equality. They differ only in the means used to achieve that end. In Russia, the communist movement was corrupted at its source by a bloodthirsty, megalomaniacal Georgian....and in China by his smiling, ideological twin. Between the two of them, they murdered more of humanity than was lost in both World Wars combined.

A popular mistake.

I don't care about Mao's victims, what I need from him is in my signature, and I have a bottle-opener key-chain with his portrait. My girlfriend found it funny and made a present for me when she came back from China.

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Originally posted by Shuckins
By contrast, socialism is a far more peaceful, albeit insidious movement. Insidious in that it grows slowly, but surely, by turning citizens of a country into a population of dependency. Individual initiative and responsibility for one's own welfare are usually casualties of socialistic government. All in the name of equality and compassion.

You describe Soviet Socialism.

Anyway I prefer Soviet system to animal capitalism. I don;t want anyone starving.

For you guys starvation is just a figure of speech. For me it's history seen by my Parents.

Communism has yet to be achieved. We had 1980 Olympics instead of Communism promised by Khruschev. (here I quote a popular Soviet from late-70s).

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Originally posted by Shuckins
No thank you. You can keep both systems. I prefer to be a wolf, not a sheep.

I prefer to be a human, thank You.

Shuckins · « **Reply #20 on:** November 09, 2007, 07:47:27 PM »

Tell ya what Boroda, find a chart comparing rates of starvation and poverty, as well as average annual incomes, in the U.S. and your own little paradise. Post them and then we'll talk.

Excel1 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 09, 2007, 08:34:21 PM »

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Originally posted by DYNAMITE
It amazes me how many people on these boards mistake socialism and communism.

it doesn't seem all that complicated to me: socialism is the slippery slope to totalitarism, what ever flavour that may be- communism, fascism or the various shades between the two.

Boroda · « **Reply #22 on:** November 09, 2007, 08:45:27 PM »

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Originally posted by Shuckins
Tell ya what Boroda, find a chart comparing rates of starvation and poverty, as well as average annual incomes, in the U.S. and your own little paradise. Post them and then we'll talk.

Paradise in a country where 65% of the land is permafrost?!

First compare natural conditions and then - compare income.

i couldn't see a Polar Star from Bay Area. And here it's 56 degrees high.

Boroda · « **Reply #23 on:** November 09, 2007, 11:29:29 PM »

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Originally posted by Excel1
it doesn't seem all that complicated to me: socialism is the slippery slope to totalitarism, what ever flavour that may be- communism, fascism or the various shades between the two.

A guy from New Zeland!

Purely fascist country! I flew for 14 hours from LA, had to wait for 5 hours for my flight to Brisbane. There is no place to smoke in Aukland airport! When I asked local service people - they laughed into my face... That hmmm left me surprised.

I am all for totalitarism and against so-called "democracy", and no totalitarian regime can afford anything like what I suffered in NZ.

Go enjoy it if You can. Democracy my ass! It's YOU to blame. YOU elected this no-smoking fascists.

Masherbrum · « **Reply #24 on:** November 09, 2007, 11:43:52 PM »

Socialism or "Stalinism" Boroda? I believe it is something like this: The economic development is based on the creation of centrally planned economies directed by a state that owns all the means of production. I would guess that you prefer Stalinism based on past discussions.

"Socialism" is a vague term, as there are many categories of it.

Communism? Which is the basis to establish a classless and stateless social organization based on common ownership of the means of production.

While I have read the Communist Manifesto many times in the past, I feel it is one of those things that sounds good on paper, but cannot be fully realized in everyday life.

Also, I enjoy talking about Ideologies, so don't get a knee jerk reaction to my post.

Boroda · « **Reply #25 on:** November 09, 2007, 11:55:25 PM »

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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Socialism or "Stalinism" Boroda? I believe it is something like this: The economic development is based on the creation of centrally planned economies directed by a state that owns all the means of production. I would guess that you prefer Stalinism based on past discussions.

"Socialism" is a vague term, as there are many categories of it.

Communism? Which is the basis to establish a classless and stateless social organization based on common ownership of the means of production.

While I have read the Communist Manifesto many times in the past, I feel it is one of those things that sounds good on paper, but cannot be fully realized in everyday life.

Also, I enjoy talking about Ideologies, so don't get a knee jerk reaction to my post.

Almost 9AM here. And I have to work tomorrow (or today). Your post is a good excuse for a last smoke.

Stalinism. it's my choice and I explained it many times here. I defined it here.

it's funny but you are quite close to define "Communism", the last person I expected.

Reading Communist Manifesto (BTW - publishd n 1848) - you probably enjoyed socialization of women?...

Masherbrum · « **Reply #26 on:** November 10, 2007, 12:00:27 AM »

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Originally posted by Boroda
Almost 9AM here. And I have to work tomorrow (or today). Your post is a good excuse for a last smoke.

Stalinism. it's my choice and I explained it many times here. I defined it here.

it's funny but you are quite close to define "Communism", the last person I expected.

Reading Communist Manifesto (BTW - publishd n 1848) - you probably enjoyed socialization of women?...

We're both human, we aren't that different Pavel. Things might get "heated" at times, but I can discuss Ideologies with the best of them.

Jay

moot · « **Reply #27 on:** November 10, 2007, 12:57:41 AM »

Look at that, Boroda still harpin on about the glorious communism that no one else but him truly knows, and that he'll never actualy define or explain...

Excel1 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 10, 2007, 02:12:02 AM »

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Originally posted by Boroda
A guy from New Zeland!

Purely fascist country! I flew for 14 hours from LA, had to wait for 5 hours for my flight to Brisbane. There is no place to smoke in Aukland airport! When I asked local service people - they laughed into my face... That hmmm left me surprised.

I am all for totalitarism and against so-called "democracy", and no totalitarian regime can afford anything like what I suffered in NZ.

Go enjoy it if You can. Democracy my ass! It's YOU to blame. YOU elected this no-smoking fascists.

hmm... last month after i went through immigration at auckland airport for an out bound flight i had to go cold turkey for a whole 5 minutes- before i went out to the 'smokers deck ' and had a cig. the deck is not exactly well advertised so the airport staff should have told you about it. there idiots rather than fascist and probably don't like their job. airport staff can be a sour unfreindly lot at times.. sorry man, that was mean

lazs2 · « **Reply #29 on:** November 10, 2007, 10:23:46 AM »

boroda.. I thing you (and other non english speakers here) do an excellent and amazing job of communicating...

I also think you are wrong tho at times..

I think what is telling is that the commies wiped out all reference to jack londons real life style. it is odd considering how you always say that we here have no idea of how things are because of the censorship...

a cursory glance at the state park site for jack londons ranch will show how he lived. I know you know he bought a luxury yacht and sailed the world right?

he worked hard as a kid... I don't think he could have worked any harder than me carrying the hod for my plasterer dad and brother.

It is like you have been fed half the story.. the socialist jack london only makes sense if you leave out the entire last part of his life. strange.

Ayn Rand is a hero to me.. she started out in a commie environment and.. through individualism and capitalism made her life a great thing.. she helped so many others.. She simply (like london) proved that out system works... that no matter how humble your begginings.. you could rise here.

ghost talks of being comfortable and relative freedom... I would rather have opportunity than comfort.. it might not always work out but it is a state of being.. a state of mind.. that I insist on.

lazs