Wanting Critical Analysis Of These Duels

[DoNKeY]

Hey guys how's it going.  A couple of nights ago I had some fun fights/duels agains 1sads.  Let me tell you, it wasn't easy!  Anyway, I have a few of the fights up that we had, his LA vs. my 38.

I was wondering if anyone would be interested in watching them and giving me a little analysis of maybe stuff I did wrong, stuff I did good, something I could have done better, etc.  

Thanks a lot, I would really appreciate this (The last two I believe are the little bit longer fights, as they were much more closer).


donkey

Duel 1: http://www.mediafire.com/?c29kbynczvt

Duel 2: http://www.mediafire.com/?e86edjbamj0

Duel 3: http://www.mediafire.com/?4l4x1jhmyl1

Duel 4: http://www.mediafire.com/?ddxy3mcj29e

I'll put up some of the ones I lost latter, I still havn't completely gone through all of the film.

[Widewing]

Several things...

You need to remember that a not insignificant portion of the P-38's lift comes from prop wash. Pulling off power to improve your turn doesn't do anything other than waste E and INCREASE your turn radius while also increasing the risk of a stall. You have a bad habit of pulling off power precisely when you need it most. More than a few times you pulled off power while climbing almost vertically! What will that get you, besides in trouble?

Learn to use your rudder to speed up the roll rate when slow with flaps out. Also, learn to use the rudder to yaw the fighter for a front quarter shot.

Learn to fly where you are looking, not looking where you're flying. Get your nose on the enemy, keep it there. Estimate where he's going at be there waiting. It's like using padlock without actually using it. Don't just glance at the enemy and go back to forward view, watch him continuously (if possible). This only gets a bit tricky if you're dueling at tree-top level. Even then, it' still the best practice. The more you observe the enemy, the more information you have as to his E state, attitude, orientation and a host of other visual cues that go a long way to getting a positional advantage.

When fighting La-7s, don't take the fight lower... The higher you go, the less performance the La-7 has. Drag the fight uphill.

Donkey, stop by the TA on Wednesday or Thursday evening after 9 PM Eastern and we can work on a few things that should help you.

Just keep in mind that you should try to duel the best pilots you can find. Why? Because your skills will never improve beyond that required to defeat the guys you fight. Fight the best, take a licking... And learn much more and faster too.

Keep working at it... You've got the right attitude. Now, you just need a higher level of competition and lots of practice.

My regards,

Widewing

[Agent360]

Hi DoNKeY,

I watched all 4 films. I expected to see me getting shot down in one of them. hehe.

First I should say I know absolutley nothing about how to fly the p38. I do know lots about how to shoot one down with a 109  

But I do have some comments about your flying style.

Observation #1
I noticed you didn't really merge on any of the fights. You blew through keeping all your speed and climbed some. You simply climbed out waiting for the attacker to turn and chase with less speed. Then you turned and passed high over the attacker....again climbing out. This repeats over and over.

This is a very very conservative style. I saw no aggression in your fighting. I looks as though you are only flying for the "rope". I didnt see any real attempts to gain a controlling 3-9 position. You did remain on top but without any real control over the fight. It seemed like an endless stalemate.

You had many oppurtunities to convert your position on top to a quick endgame. But you just passed over and climbed again.

Get more aggressive. Use your speed and top position to "set up" a move where you can start controlling the fight for a good quick one shot kill.

Observation #2
In almost every case you made a complete verticle loop when you turned. I watched with trails and its just one loop after another. At one point you did like 3 big loops in a row. Looping has no real tactical value other than escaping up. You don't gain any position using a loop.

Going up to make your turn is good most of the time. But you should make the turn at a 45 deg oblique angle to the side on which the attacker passes. If the attacker passes to the left you oblique turn to the left. Drop your flaps at the top and rudder hard into the down side of the turn. Likely the attacker will see this and pull up. This is ok - you have control when the attacker is in front of your 3-9 line. You have made the turn up so you can convert you alt to speed again. Fly to where the attacker has made his turn up and fly into is cold six (below his tail in the blind spot) and pull up hard into him again. If you did it correctly the attacker will be finishing his turn as you are coming up to the same spot where he is turning down. Here you have a few options. The best one is to take him in a flat turn just under him. Watch him drop by and persue hard.

Observation #3
Your not using your rudder at all to turn. Many times you passed above with an oppurtunity to simply slew your nose around into a close six chase. I see your plane simply roll over with no effort to get the nose around  and into a flat turn into his high six. From here you again can control the fight.

Observation #4
For a few times you did gain 3-9 line control. But this position was quickly lost. You were flying LAG persuit the whole time. You only went lead for a shot. But that is all you got... one snap shot and no position....back to the loop again.

Once you get them into a dive with you on top and you are working for a shot at the top of their turn you need to close the seperation as fast as possible.

So fly pure persuit all the way to d400 then quickly pull lead untill they are under your nose. Shoot. and roll and rudder hard back onto their six gaining 3-9 line control again.

By flying lag persuit you are allowing the attacker to gain seperation. In your case it was way plenty seperation for the attacker to turn back into you at an angle you could not follow. So all you had was one fleeting shot and again no position to follow.

Conclusion:
Fly more aggressive. I mean....kill kill kill kind of aggressive.

When merging take your contact off to one side NOT directly over or under you. At 1.5k out begin a gentle turn to them. At the last second turn hard. You want your plane banked and turning when you pass. Get under their nose if possible.

FIGHT hard for the 3-9 line control immedialty after the merge. If you loose it then extend - climb and get back head to head again.

Fly to where they are going not where they have been.

Lead turn every time you get a chance. And use your rudder in doing so.

If you intend on gaining immediate 3-9 control on the merge make your hard turn with one notch of flaps out ( you can do this in a p38)

Question - What would you have done if the attacker just strung you out in a shallow dive away every time you turned up.
Answer - nothing. You go up. He extends. You chase him down. He turns into you. You go up......neither you or him has a shot. As long as you stay up there and he stays down there no one is going to win. You get lots of practice doing loops and turns though...heheh

If you dont have 3-9 line contorl work to get it. Use seperation as a tool for gaining position NOT for just going up.

You have good SA. You have good extending and exit skills. Your good at the rope move. But you have got to learn how to "GET CONTROL" and keep it.

S!

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Agent360
Hi DoNKeY,

I watched all 4 films. I expected to see me getting shot down in one of them. hehe.

First I should say I know absolutley nothing about how to fly the p38. I do know lots about how to shoot one down with a 109  

I've had some good P38G vs 109K fights with Agent360.  Think we're about even

I'd agree with what he's saying about being more agressive.  Seems like you are waiting for the other guy to commit instead of forcing him to commit if that makes sense.

[SlapShot]

Duel 1
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Not bad, but as Agent pointed out, if you were more aggressive, you could have ended the fight sooner. Too many lazy turns into your opponent, when you gained the upper hand, which at times, almost gave him the advantage.

Duel 2
--------

Still not bad at all ... again ... lack of aggression.

At 1:08 into the film, you tried to pull lead (after the double immel) and couldn't quite get around on him. Not sure if you popped flaps but heard you pull off on the gas. I am guessing you didn't pop flaps, cause a 38 can come around much quicker than you did.

Ok ... so you missed the shot window ... not a big deal ... but right after that, he went nose down and away and you did not follow !!! ... that was a mistake ... you chose to go up and away and let him regain and stay in the fight.

For me, if after a merge, and the opponent goes nose down and away ... I am all over him like white on rice. I would have done a hard left turn with rudder to get the nose around quickly to gain his six and stayed on him with a vengeance.

Duel 3
--------

Much better as far as aggression was concerned. You actually attacked rather than react. I just can't believe that you couldn't get the nose around a lot quicker than you were. Rather than the snapshots that you did get, had you brought the nose around quicker, instead of snapshots, those would have been full blown profile kill shots.

Your opponent pulled the gamey "turn the engine off" to try and force the overshoot ... I hate that, but it also caused his demise into the drink.

Duel 4
--------

40 seconds after the first merge ... you should have been dead. Then, he repeatedly missed kill opportunities. He gained your six very easily, but stayed on the gas causing him to overshoot. Had he got off the gas and threw some rudder he would have been glued to your six and you would have felt some 20mm love.

That aside ... not too bad on your part. After watching all these duels, give Widewing a visit and he can teach you how to get that 39 nose around much quicker that you are. All these fights were prolonged due to, at times a lack of aggression, and not being able to get the P38 nose around for lead to make the killshot.

When I fly the 38, I not only work the daylights out of the flaps, but it is the only plane that I actually use elevator trim while in flight/fight. Using the elevator trim will give me the extra nose up when I need it.

[SlapShot]

I am not anywhere near the upper echelon of fighters in Aces High, but I think I can hold my own. With that, here are a couple of films that I have in an F6F in which I think I use controlled aggression ... and don't laugh at my gunnery ...

F6F Aggression

This film I take on a Hurri, a Spit, and then another Spit ... all in the same sortie but separate incidents.

Against the Hurr I have the advantage at the onset.

I try to lure him in and when he hesitates, you will see that I immediately drop down on him (24 seconds in) ... cut throttle and take lead pursuit and take my shot.

I get a couple of hits and convert my speed back to alt, meanwhile watching what he does. He turns back to me and below me so I level off ... at 1:06 he hesitates again and I roll over and drop in again ... take lead pursuit after coming off the throttle and take the shot. He dodges it and I go back up.

I then see that he doesn't extend, but turns back into me. That means that he burned considerable E dodging and then immediately turns back to me burning more E. That is exactly what I want.

I want the Hurri to get slow and sloppy while I maintain a speed and alt advantage, and if I lolly-gag around, he just might get back up to fighting speed. At 1:36, I'm back in taking lead pursuit and off the throttle ... meanwhile he is slow and sloppy and dies to the HellCat.

I knew who the guy in the Hurri was, and he is a decent pilot so I wanted to stay on him and not give him a chance to recover. Regardless tho ... it doesn't matter who the other guy is, you want to force them into your fight and keep the pressure on.

As I climb out from the kill, there is a Spit coming my way so I continue to climb to gain an alt advantage that I can turn into speed if needed. I might mention that the F6F doesn't climb as well as a P-38, but it can climb very well.

I see that the Spit is turning right and coming up ... so I turn right and go up knowing that if he keeps that stature, I will pop flaps, smack rudder and drop on him like a stone. Well ... he runs out of steam or guts (you decide) and tries to turn away.

I don't think so !!! ... I immediately drop and go lead pursuit and again ... off the throttle. I take my shots ... score some hits and I think that he decided that a little stick stirrin' might help out, but I believe that it cause his wing to shear off after the .50s weakened it causing him to hit the dirt. I dumped alot of E here so thankfully there isn't anyone around to take advantage of me.

I start to climb out again .. heading north towards where they are coming from, so I reverse direction and hope that I can climb out south to get back to a fighting alt and speed.

I look behind me and there is a Spit inbound and loaded for bear ... RUT-ROH !!!

At 3:40, you will see that I go level and then start a gentle dive to try and get some speed back and get into the fighting speed envelope of the F6F. I continue this until the is about 2.5K out. I turn back into him with a nose down turn to try and maintain speed for the merge. I begin my turn at 301 mph ... and at the merge I am back up to 290+ mph ... cool.

As a side note ... in the F6F, I much prefer to turn into my opponent sooner than later. It gets my speed back up for the merge and gives me more choices on what to do at the merge.

So ... at the merge, he is going for the gold ... the HO ... while I am already starting my lead turn. By the time that I am up and over, he is only 1.5K away and just starting his zoom climb. Had he been concentrating on what I was doing at the merge, rather than go for the HO ... he might have been in a much better position ... but he had to "go for it".

So now I am at the top and rolling over from invert and he is climbing, so I take a lead pursuit knowing that he is going to be surprised as hell to see me there. I get a few shots on him, while he shoots in vane cause he has no guns solution.

At the merge we are canopy to canopy and I know he is diving down, so I immediately roll over and turn back to him to gain his six and take it to him ... time to go for broke cause I think I have him right where I want him.

He decides that climbing is his best move. Well after rolling over and diving, at the bottom of the dive, just before I start to go up, I am going almost 200 mph and he is losing speed quickly in his climb ... about 150 mph. At this point, I take lead pursuit and point my pipper where I think he is going to be and let her rip ... meanwhile I am still climbing to him. The HellCat CAN climb with some extra smash behind it.

F6F vs Spit - High Alt

This is a quick one.

There is a Spit behind me with alt. He begins his attack run, and again, I turn into him at about 2.5K out.

At the merge I see he goes up and makes a nonchalant/non-aggressive loop/immel ... so I continue straight with a slight climb and then go level to keep my speed up ... gotta keep the HellCat speed up and in it's zone.

At 2.0 out I turn into him again. He goes for the high-deflection snap shot and I spoil it. I then see that he flat turns. This is what I want, so I turn back into him again, slightly nose down, to get some speed for the merge.

At the merge, he has no guns solution so passes and begins a lazy up to the left turn. I mirror his turn, but he gets lazier on the down leg of the turn so I go tighter and take lead pursuit and take my shot (my gunnery sucks) and miss.

That's ok, because at this point, I own his six and will not let go of it unless he pulls something real funky ... which he doesn't ... and he dies seconds later.

His problem was that he was on the throttle the whole fight. He took that Spit 8 completely out of it's prime fighting envelope and stayed within mine.

What caused that ... maybe my aggression in an F6F rattled him, with him thinking he had an easy kill. I do know for a fact that once I had his six, he panicked which cause him to flop the Spit which ended in a face full of .50 cals.

The point here ... aggressive behavior can cause panic in your opponent causing them to make silly and stupid mistakes.

One more thing ... I have learned 100 times more from my deaths than I have from my victories. Don't be afraid to be aggressive and die from it, cause what you will learn, will come back in eventual victories.

I hope I didn't bore anyone with these films and post.

<>

[Widewing]

Originally posted by SlapShot
I am not anywhere near the upper echelon of fighters in Aces High, but I think I can hold my own. With that, here are a couple of films that I have in an F6F in which I think I use controlled aggression ... and don't laugh at my gunnery ...

Slap, both links lead to the same film..

My regards,

Widewing

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Widewing
Slap, both links lead to the same film..

My regards,

Widewing

Fixed !!! ... thanks.

[DoNKeY]

Thanks guys, this is exactly what I was looking for.  Yeah I can definitely see how I fly timid, and not as aggressive as I should.  It's just that whenever I try to be aggressive, I always make a mistake that leads to my death haha, guess I just have to work on that.

Widewing, I would greatly appreciate that.  I'll see if I can get some time to stop by!


thanks guys,
donkey

[Widewing]

Originally posted by SlapShot
Fixed !!! ... thanks.

I for one, am embarrassed by my fellow Rooks for such miserable Spitfire flying..

I noticed that BobCat tried like hell to steal that last Spit kill, diving down and shooting at the wreck with his 110G-2. Dweeb....

My regards,

Widewing

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Widewing
I for one, am embarrassed by my fellow Rooks for such miserable Spitfire flying..

I noticed that BobCat tried like hell to steal that last Spit kill, diving down and shooting at the wreck with his 110G-2. Dweeb....

My regards,

Widewing

I would like to have thought that it was my superb handling of the F6F ...  

Yeah ... I noticed the dive on the falling carcass ... I didn't say anything tho.