Author Topic: gas prices we deserve  (Read 1396 times)

Offline Mojava

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Re: gas prices we deserve
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2008, 12:43:28 PM »
  Didn't realize I was having an argument.   Here you go Virgil, have a gander at those numbers.  http://www.ombwatch.org/article/articleview/4262

Offline Nashwan

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Re: gas prices we deserve
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2008, 12:57:50 PM »
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It's alittle more complicated than that as I'm sure you're well aware of.  Saudi Arabia, Kuwait Venezuela, and Iran produce heavy, sour crude. This has a high sulphur content.

Saudi produces about two thirds light, one third heavy. Kuwait is mostly medium to light. Venezuela produces very heavy crude, Iran heavy crude.

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Refinery capacity for heavy crude is lacking.

Yes. Part of the problem is sanctions on Iran. Refineries are gearing up for heavier grades though, so there'll be less of a problem in future.

But the difficulties in refining heavy crude are mainly a problem for the producing countries. Their oil sells at a discount because it costs more to refine, but it still sells.

Offline RedTop

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Re: gas prices we deserve
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2008, 04:31:50 PM »
"gas prices we deserve".....

Hmm...Let me think who I pizzed off to deserve this.












No one......So your statement of what "We" deserve is not accurate......I have a midsize SUV (Mazda Tribute)...a mini van (small V6) for the wife and grandkids....a small home considered in todays market as a starter home (2000 sq. feet)....and very rarley speed in excess of 5 to 10 over....if that. I don't do alot of running around.....and waste hardly anything.


Can I have that 1.20 a gallon back now?
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Offline jimson

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Re: gas prices we deserve
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2008, 10:57:07 AM »
You don't need government standards on MPG. You don't need to require flex fuel (not even going into the debate on how much energy one really gains from the production of ethanol).

Tax. Tax something, you get less of it. Subsidize it, you get more of it.

Want higher MPG cars? Slap a $2 gallon tax on gasoline, all the money earmarked to pay down the national debt or to be directly rebated via Social Security payroll tax reductions or something. I assure you, you WILL get higher MPG cars very quickly. You will significantly reduce US consumption of gasoline simultaneously. Instead of the extra money from $2 gas going to the oil producers, it will come back to the US citizens. (Bonus is that illegals won't get the rebate. :) )

Also, by taxing gas and not ethanol or other flex fuels, you will drive the market to flex fuel vehicles.

Of course, you'll never ever get rid of the $2 added gas tax, even after the problems are improved or resolved. But hey.. that's big government for ya!
Increasing taxes on gas to force consumers to conserve is national suicide for the economy, I drive a 4 cylinder car, but we don't have subways or any real mass trans options here. I'm hurting big time already and I can't afford to replace my car with a hybrid, without even going into a debate on how the trickle down effects business such as tourism etc. If gas is too expensive we can't keep vacation industries in business.
Brazil runs on ethanol with leftover fuel they would like to import to us except we have protectionist tarriffs for big oil. Who else can grow sugar cane? Maybe Columbia and Peru would like a new, legal, cash crop. If most US cars can be converted to flex fuel, that market will rise. If you build it they will come. If we can use whichever fuel source is cheaper there will be stiff competition.
We need to get out of this "oil only" based economy. If we could get half our cars running on ethanol, things would dramatically improve.

Offline Toad

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Re: gas prices we deserve
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2008, 11:02:18 AM »
If the tax is refunded to you via a lower Social Security payroll tax you wouldn't lose anything. It would still drive the market towards the result you desire though.

Of course, we could wait until the price hits $6/gallon and then just smile as the $2/gallon goes to the Saudis.
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Offline shotgunneeley

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Re: gas prices we deserve
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2008, 11:49:12 AM »
"13% of the experts predict that gas prices will exceed $5/gallon by the end of the year, while 87% of the experts predict that gas prices will exceed $5/gallon by the end of the week!" - Jay Leno
"Lord, let us feel pity for Private Jenkins, and sorrow for ourselves, and all the angel warriors that fall. Let us fear death, but let it not live within us. Protect us, O Lord, and be merciful unto us. Amen"-from FALLEN ANGELS by Walter Dean Myers

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Offline ZetaNine

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Re: gas prices we deserve
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2008, 11:53:12 AM »
"gas prices we deserve".....

Hmm...Let me think who I pizzed off to deserve this.



You cannot possibly discount the fact (no pun) that for MANY years....OPEC has been salivating while watching the USA drive their Large SUV's and Trucks and not conclude that the we apparently as a nation felt that gas prices were far too low. I'm surprised it took this long.....

« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 12:22:23 PM by ZetaNine »

Offline jimson

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Re: gas prices we deserve
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2008, 12:40:49 PM »
If the tax is refunded to you via a lower Social Security payroll tax you wouldn't lose anything. It would still drive the market towards the result you desire though.

Of course, we could wait until the price hits $6/gallon and then just smile as the $2/gallon goes to the Saudis.
I see.
Well I'm on board then, as long as it's assured the money doesn't hit a pork detour on the way to my paycheck.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Re: gas prices we deserve
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2008, 04:07:22 PM »
If the tax is refunded to you via a lower Social Security payroll tax you wouldn't lose anything. It would still drive the market towards the result you desire though.

Of course, we could wait until the price hits $6/gallon and then just smile as the $2/gallon goes to the Saudis.

The problem is that once the government takes your money, you ain't getting it back. Unless you qualify for an entitlement. Sorry, the thieves in D.C. never met revenue they didn't feel they had the right to spend.
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Offline RedTop

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Re: gas prices we deserve
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2008, 05:41:27 PM »


You cannot possibly discount the fact (no pun) that for MANY years....OPEC has been salivating while watching the USA drive their Large SUV's and Trucks and not conclude that the we apparently as a nation felt that gas prices were far too low. I'm surprised it took this long.....



Point taken... :)

I have had trucks...All got decent gas mileage due to driving habits....and now I have a Mis-size SUV. The "We" is where I differ.
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Offline bj229r

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Re: gas prices we deserve
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2008, 06:42:54 PM »
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On Wednesday, Schumer once again claimed "if [Saudi Arabia] did a million barrels of oil a day increase from today, it would go down about -- the translation to gasoline would be about $.50 a gallon, maybe $.62."
Yet, on May 7, Schumer felt a likely similar increase from drilling in ANWR would "reduce the price of oil by a penny."
link
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Schumer does know that if you increase the supply of something, the price of it probably will fall. That's why he and 96 other senators recently voted to increase the supply of oil on the market by stopping the flow of oil into the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, which protects against major physical interruptions.

Seventy-one of the 97 senators who voted to stop filling the SPR also oppose drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

One million barrels is what might today be flowing from ANWR if in 1995 President Bill Clinton hadn't vetoed legislation to permit drilling there. One million barrels produce 27 million gallons of gasoline and diesel fuel. Seventy-two of today's senators - including Schumer, of course, and 38 other Democrats, including Barack Obama, and 33 Republicans, including John McCain - have voted to keep ANWR's estimated 10.4 billion barrels of oil off the market.

So Schumer, according to Schumer, is complicit in taking $10 away from every American who buys 20 gallons of gasoline.
link

It is estimated that 8-10 years would be required to get Anwar online, and Schumer's ilk has been blocking it for.....10 years. Anwar in and of itself is no long term answer, but adding in the similar half-dozen fields, would be enough to make the Saudis be irrelevant for a while
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Offline AWMac

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Re: gas prices we deserve
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2008, 06:50:18 PM »
Makes ya kinda wonder what the Alaskian Pipeline was all for huh?

 :huh

Offline bj229r

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Re: gas prices we deserve
« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2008, 12:27:57 AM »
Makes ya kinda wonder what the Alaskian Pipeline was all for huh?

 :huh
It's to get all the caribou in 1 place so hunters can more easily shoot them :D (they LOVE the nice warm pipeline, much to the surprise of the tree huggers)
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Offline Hap

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Re: gas prices we deserve
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2008, 05:07:27 AM »
If the tax is refunded to you via a lower Social Security payroll tax you wouldn't lose anything. It would still drive the market towards the result you desire though.

Of course, we could wait until the price hits $6/gallon and then just smile as the $2/gallon goes to the Saudis.

Don't know about Toad's suggestion, but it got me thinking.  Monorails??  Everywhere.  Or something moving towards that end of the transportation pool.