How to kill spits and ki-84s in a 109

[spit16nooby]

I fly the 109k-4 almost always and have trouble with these two planes and La-7s because they can fight in the vert with me and are more manueverable with my sole advantage being speed and none to the La-7 how should I fight?  I can usually kill american planes such as the p-51 and the corsairs by taking them into the vert.  Also how should I fight another 109k-4?  Also does anyone have any films of leading the 30mm.  I swear I would do tons better if I could shoot it.

[Messiah]

I fly the 109k-4 almost always and have trouble with these two planes and La-7s because they can fight in the vert with me and are more manueverable with my sole advantage being speed and none to the La-7 how should I fight?  I can usually kill american planes such as the p-51 and the corsairs by taking them into the vert.  Also how should I fight another 109k-4?  Also does anyone have any films of leading the 30mm.  I swear I would do tons better if I could shoot it.

For the spits I usually just get slower than them and that does the trick, or use the k4's better acceleration and hang on the prop.  Same for ki84, which has horrible high speed handling.  Basically you just have to be better than your opponent and smarter especially if you want to fly the k4.  For gunnery, you shouldn't be pulling lead unless your really close.  Set up your maneuvers so that you have a nice cross shot and it's a piece of cake.  Also learn to shoot at max 3 taters at a time and only when the shot is guaranteed.  If I get a shot that I'm not sure I'll hit on I'll usually just fire 1 tater at a time.

[Agent360]

Both of these planes will out turn a K4. Both are nearly as fast. The La7 is faster. The KIa4 can keep up and climb with a K4.

Set up the merge or reversal so that you can get closer even if you have no shot. Just get close. Close on the merge pass, close on any turn.

Once you get close try to turn into them and roll over the top then wep on and try to get a shot. Try to create a scissor type shot. You want them crossing your guns as much as possible.

Avoid any sustained flat turns. Often the LA and KI will make large arcing turns at high speed and slightly climb in the turn. Then they will reverse and keep the speed. You lag out on the turn and keep your speed and when they reverse the turn you go strait up to stall and come back down. If your off and they follow you up just go level some, use flaps and avoid the guns, and dive into verticle scissors down and work for an overshoot. Then escape out the opposite way, get some speed and turn back as fast as you can. Re engage.

Try to keep your turn circle and their turn circle crossing at 45 degree angles...or crossing obliquely as much as possible. If the circles begin to cross more horizontal or verticle with no seperation you will get out turned quickly especially if they are fast. If you keep the turns to them off angle at 45 degrees you are essentially in a scissor situation which is what you want because you will get good snapshots as they pass under or over you.

Oh and try to keep your nose UP on every turn.....unless you need to dive out and escape. If you start turning nose down to cut the turn you will get too fast and overshoot allowing them to simply roll over and shoot you.



Good Luck