Damage Model

[JG51_GIJeff_<<+]

Salute Gents,

     I found something disturbing in the Training Arena, damage models are a bit weak for all the planes here, and not necessarily balanced.  I did a HO with a Mustang in a Nikki.  Now I have four 20mm guns and he has six .50 cals, who do you think should win that contest if I give as good as I get?  The mustang killed me and even though I saw strikes all over his plane, he didn't even start smoking.  He shouldda disintegrated under that hail of 20 mike mike.  

     Also is the range in the game in feet or  yards?  If feet, then the game doesn't allow you to fire far enough.  If yards then the planes look too damned close at 1000.  I have been pinged lightly and had parts of my plane fall off, now with machine guns you seldom see parts of planes coming off even with heavy hits.  These planes come apart like kites when hit.  Does the game not differentiate between the amount of damage difference between .50 cals and 20mm?  I think all the planes, especially the bombers should be beefed up a bit.  The idea of blowing a B26 in half with a little burst of machinegun fire is a bit ludicrous.  I don't think they were THAT fragile.

JG51_GIJeff_<<+

 

[Kieren]

First-

Damage model is the same as far as I can tell. You're oversimplifying quite a bit to conclude that your Nikki/51 HO duel was a pure test of gun strength/damage model. Connect quality, convergence, and pilot aim have a lot to do with it too.    

Second-

I was in a 109F4 last night in the MA. I had only one (1) 20mm and two (2) 7.9's onboard. I attacked a B26 inbound for our base. I hit him nose on for a 2 second burst, damaged his engine. Climbed over him, dove hard on his back and put in at least 3-5 seconds of sustained fire. Bits and pieces fell, no kill. I finally pulled up, dropped on him one final time (just as an F4U-1C opened up on it from dead 6) and put in the last bit. All-in-all, it was tough. Bear in mind I had to pull off twice because I was so close I could see the cake stuck between the gunner's teeth.  

Editor: Dang, you can tell when I'm sick... there were far more typo's than I normally make (and that's a bunch!).



[This message has been edited by Kieren (edited 03-08-2000).]

[JG51_GIJeff_<<+]

Salute Gents,

     Kieren,perhaps I should be more clear, I saw hit sprites on the 51 while his shots were going wide, I held sustained fire on him, complete with hit sprites the length of his wing for an estimated 3/4 second, and he finally started to get hits.  I heard about six pings and pouf! was falling in pieces of my own plane.  I would estimate, conservatively, that I saw at least twenty hits on his plane.

     I opened up at extreme range for the 20mm since I had the Training Arena ammo load of 2500rds per pair of 20mm's.  Approximately at D1.2 and got some hits there, then saw sustained hits on him at D800-D500.  As far as connect quality goes, I have a cable modem, nuff said about that.

     I agree pilot aim can be a factor, but I ain't a newbie.  I am a much better gunner than pilot and am well known for taking shots at 3000ft in EAW and hitting my targets.  

     I actually disagree with the convergence adjustability of this game, I seriously doubt that most pilots were able to, even if they were allowed to, adjust these things.  The convergences should be fixed and appropriate to the plane in question.

     I still have to get used to the planes, but I doubt they should fly apart as they do with only a few .50cal hits..  Perhaps there is an inconsistency that should be investigated, rather than a bias one way or the other.  

     If you can pour fire into something as I did and not kill it but I can be taken so easily by .50cal then there is a problem both directions perhaps.  A consistency in the amount of damage needed to kill a target is what we need.

JG51_GIJeff_<<+

[Vermillion]

LOL!! Like I was trying to tell you last night in the TA Jeff, HO's are a "crapshoot".

There are too many variables you can't control, so its best to forget the HO and  go for advantage.

In your case connection can be a problem. Just because your on cable don't mean your not losing packets somewhere in between. So I would not say "Enough said..." because you may be fooling yourself.

You see, all those hits are determined by the person who is firing's Front End (FE). For one, all those shots you saw missing may have been hitting you directly in the pilots canopy on his FE.

And its also your opponents connection that matters too.

If there were just one or two lost packets in those miliseconds of the HO pass, his FE may not have gotten the message that he was "dead", so he continues firing and his FE see's that you got killed and passes the message  on to yours. And it could have been dropped anywhere on either route to the HTC server.

Forget the HO, unless you have NO other choice.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
 
 

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 03-08-2000).]

[TT]

 Whith you all the way jeff, The P51 is way to tuff. And the spits HO ability is down right supernatural.

 Yesterday I had an HO of sorts with a spit. I was moveing towards him. The friendly behind him blew his wing off at 1k. He went spinning through the air holding the trigger down, and fireing a big circle. I wrote him off as a dead plane. Then i heard a ping, my tail came off. he was at 700yrds. This was bad luck of course. But the point is, that the arguement for the spits ROF, and time on target is BS. This was clearly a one ping death, with the guy spraying in a circle as he was crashing.

 BTW i was in an f4u.

[This message has been edited by TT (edited 03-08-2000).]

[Pongo]

I dont know if you are grouping a bunch of experiances into your one example but for instance.
You dont like convergance..If he does and set his at 650 to your 300, he had a huge advantage. His ROF is higher than yours and his guns flatter shooting.
This is not an Attrition model of gunfire damage. Your plane does not take a certain amount of damage and then die, successive hits can be more dangorous but it only takes one. If he fired one round at 1.2, and it hit your pilot that is all it takes.
My experiance with leathality ingeneral in this game is that it is quite reasonable, individual occurances can look suspect, but critical hits can do that. You will not take down B26s every time with a short burst, you usually wont. Vulching them in an F4u1c sure but not in normal air to air engagments.

Infact "getting hits all over" is a good way not to kill a plane. The same number of hits in one area are more likly to find something critical.
It is a bad idea to underestimate the 51 in an HO. its rate of fire makes the number of hits as you close through a long convergence zone deceptive. Its round is very balisticaly efficient as well..

Convergence. They did set it per pilot. Rifles are zeroed for every shooter...Why would you not do the same for a fighter pilot.
Think of the effect of a short convergance on HO. If your guns cross at 300 how far are the streams appart by 1.2?
If they started at 15ft appart, they are 15 ft appart again at 600, 30ft at 900, and 45 ft appart at 1.2
The 600 convergence guns are never more than 15ft appart out to 1.2, they are less effective for dogfighting as they are almost always a little spread out.

All the net stuff above also applies..


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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew