M3 woes

[ZOSO]

Hammered an M3 in my mustang with two good bursts from all 6 .50s with no seeming effect.  The M3 hit me once with it's one .50 and ripped my left wing off.

see "what's wrong with this picture" thread for more reports of the same thing.

I have tried to discipline myself to ignore bombers which are way too deadly, do I now have to ignore M3s as well?!  Seems a bit ridiculous.  I look forward to 1.06 as much as the next guy, but I for one would prefer to see the planes and vehicles we have now fixed(?) before new stuff is added that may also need to be fixed as well.  Am I alone in this?

[Tac]

I hit an m16 from behind with 20mm cannon (about 50 rounds of it) and with my 4 .50's on my p-38 and the m16 kept going completely undamaged.

Did another pass at grass-level, hit the M16 from the side, my cannon gone now, it still lived.

Last time I checked my .45 pistol could punch a hole throug an old iron Ford truck... and sure as hell can punch a hole through an idiot standing on the m16's turret.

So what gives?

[Jigster]

A one inch armor plate protecting the gunner when the turrent is facing you.

M2 .50 BMG has @ 1/2 inch penetration at 500 yrds, M2 Hispano has @ 3/4 inch penetration at the same range.

But armor doesn't equate to much right now.

Unless you have the proper weight of fire guns your wasting your time anyway. And because the 38 has mixed banks and only a single Hispano it's weight of fire isn't very concentrated.

[Tac]

Jig, if the turret armor had been facing me, I wouldve been fired upon. Besides, I also attacked from the side and hit the front and bottom part of the vehicle, not to mention that the armor plate only covers the person on the turret.

That driver and the jeep's engine must be made of something unholy strong then. Right?

[Jigster]

between 3/4 and 1 inch of face hardened steel surrounds the engine compartment and cabin.

While shown unbuttoned in AH, the M-16 and M3 have armored window hatchs that can be shut to protect the cabin occupants. The cargo area has between 16mm and 6mm of armor, and 1 inch armored bell protects most portions of the gunner's body, with the exception of firing high and into the rear of the turrent ring.

The M3 gunner has no protection other then ducking behind an armored wall. The guns were really not meant to fire head-on anyway, but to hit the plane as it flew away, or generally, fire upon troops.

There isn't enough detail worked into the armor model to matter anyway. Angle, facing, etc mean nothing. The ony thing that really matters is having the propper weight of fire. While out a heavy concentration of guns (2 Hispanos, 4 Hispanos, or 8 .50's) your out of luck.

[Fishu]

Zoso,

I am sure he did hit you more...
I don't believe in such thing as hearing all pings due to my experiences in the past.
from point of being target and what ive heard from my targets.


Though, .50 caliber would toast up halftrack pretty good, it isn't any miracle armor.
Even 7.92mm machinegun could chew up on such halftrack after some shooting
Currently serious problem is that halftrack does not have any top cover, but in the game its almost same do you shoot it in the armor plate or through unprotected top (this has been tested with .30 caliber machineguns in the game)

more problem is that not even 4000 rounds of 7.92mm can hardly do anything for it.. turret doesnt die at all, but after some thousand rounds you might get suspension damaged  
I'd guess that at distance of 5 meters, it should be fairly lethal.

[Jochen]

I have no trouble killing M 3 or M 16 with light 190A-5 (2 x 20 mm + 2 x 7,92 mm) using guns only. Relatively short burst that hits target is enough.

On the other hand, I have not trouble killing 190's in Panzer with 1 x 7,92 mm or in M 3 with 1 x 12,7 mm.

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jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

[DB603]

S!

 As I read through some FAF documents(real data) of MG151/20 ammo,here is what I found out.The AP-round used in the MG151/20 could penetrate 2.3cm(very close 1") of armor at angle of 90'.A bit less at angle of 60'.So I wonder why a M3/M16 that has no heavy armor or tempered armor steel allover it,can withstand it when hitting from slightly above or from side?Or has HTC modeled the other version of the same slug that penetrates 1.3cm(about 0.5") of armor?Not to mention the 30mm that seems to do no harm either with it's significantly heavier punch.The HISPANO seems to need only a few pings and You're dead...


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DB603
3.Lentue
Lentolaivue 34

[This message has been edited by DB603 (edited 02-26-2001).]

[Fidd]

The simple fact here is that most people attack M3's and the AAA M3's with a fairly flat non-rolling approach. The gunner has all the time in the world to fire, and in zoom mode, can see clearly if he's hitting you. Whereas the pilot, has a less clear view of his hits, as they are obscured by dust kicked up from misses. Even a gentle roll closing to 800ft will prevent the vehicle gunner from getting the advantage in this regard. The same applies to getting killed by the Pz 4 cupola MG, it's a damn silly way to die, and (imho) shows both a lack of skill in the attack, and reliance on the fact that you can shoot better (flying) than the chap on the ground (sitting on his arse) can. Plainly stupid. Speaking of which, one would would *expect* strafing AAA vehicles to be decidely dangerous no?

Personally I think HTC has this about right now, as sensibly conducted attacks on M3's and tanks present no inordiante risk, although require a little skill and luck in equal measure, but strafing AAA is damn dangerous - again as it should be.

What I *would* like to see is a less obvious colour for the Ostie/Pz 4 on these green terrains - but.... also have a "dust" trail from vehicle moving at 15mph or greater. This would mean a hull down stationary tank would be slightly safer, but that fast-moving vehicles are more obvious...

Fidd

[Hans]

What about putting a burst into an airplane?  You can fire a few rounds into a plane and it doesn't seem to do anything either, and its made out of thin aluminum.

Guys, seriously, the halftrack vehicles do not seem overly durable to me.  They ARE somewhat more durable than fighters, but that seems normal to me because they're supposed to be tougher.  They do have light armor.  It won't stop a tank shell, but it will stop some bullets.  They're DEFINETLY alot more armored than an airplane.

Now, if anybody starts talking about how armored fighters are and technical mumbo jumbo like that, I am aware of where the armor is in several aircraft designs, how much, and more inportantly I AM AN AIRCRAFT MAINTANENCE TECHNICIAN.  I was just in a few different aircraft today, torn down to the skin.  Fighter armor is usually limited to the pilot seat, and not much else.

All seems fine from my gaming experiences.

Hans.

[nonoht]

i've no big problems to kill ground vehicules...

i make 90° dive attack and i can be sure that i'll have the kill...


PS: Mg on panzer seems always wound my pilot... no damage , only this wound ???

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nono
56th (Fighter) FIREBIRDS RAF