F4U miracle flaps

[Anaxogoras]

Last night I stopped by the AvA to see if vox was working there when it was out in the main arena due to TT.  I almost never fly the F4U, and it probably shows in the film.  Nevertheless, I was amazed at the F4U flaps and their ability to create a small turning circle.  The only drawback is that it's difficult to hold the gunsite on a target with flaps extended (hence my lousy gunnery). I haven't experimented with combat-trim off in the F4U, but I'm sure I could adjust if I flew it more frequently.  With flaps deployed, it's nearly impossible to stall the F4U with any significant consequence; you can fly at ridiculously low speeds, your nose straight up, guns blazing with minimal torque effect.  Over all, I can see why my F4U main arena opponents are so easily able to get on my tail in any tight engagement.
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?imzne2ygzjz

[AKDogg]

Here we go again.

[whiteman]

Trust me, you can get into bad stalls if your really working it.

[BnZs]

Anax:

I dunno man, the turn circle does seem a bit excessive.

OTOH, as regards slow-flight ability and stability...the F4U was a carrier plane that *needed* to be able to fly as slow as ~75mph. And while it has a reputation for torque, keep in mind that the horsepower of an F4U-1 in relation to the mass of the airplane is less than than that for a Spit9, 109G or K, 190, or even a P-51D. (If you want a truly bizarre case of an airplane with a large horsepower/mass ratio that none-the-less seems nigh-torqueless, look no further than the La-7)

[Anaxogoras]

I'm not necessarily saying it's in error, more like, "wow, really?"

[Saxman]

Here we go again.

Exactly what I was thinking when I saw the subject of the thread.

Anaxagoras,

The F4U pilot's manual from Vought shows a SIGNIFICANT reduction in stall speed with flaps at full deployment--in fact it's a greater percentage drop in stall speed than almost any other aircraft it's been compared to. For safety's sake I'm fairly certain that their measurements tend towards conservativeness as well.

It's been debated into the ground. Regardless of what the math says about the flaps (chord, angles, surface area, etc) by themselves, the actual performance evidence from Vought indicates there's SOME mechanism at work that, while they may not be as EFFICIENT as some aircraft's flaps, there is a TREMENDOUS amount of lift being generated.

Also keep in mind the F4U's turn rate is poorer, so sustained turning contests the F4U still needs to finish quickly to take advantage of her tighter turn radius.

[Big Rat]

What Saxman said about the turning circle vs turn rate is quite true.  While an F4U may have a very tight turning circle it doesn't do it that fast.  Many planes will beat an F4U around a flat circle at low airspeeds.  109F4, LA5, etc.  I think Widewing was the first to show me the light in this regard.  The F4U trick is to get inside the other guys circle quickly and kill them before it becomes an E contest.  Whiteman is right, you can get this thing into some really wierd stalls at times, but all in all it's a very forgiving plane to stall.

 
BigRat

[SIK1]

Something I would like to point out again is the area that the flaps take up on an F4U. They are about half the length of the wing and about a quarter the cord. (These are guesstamits) They will provide lots of lift as well as lots of drag. Usually if I'm low and slow with my flaps out I know I had better kill the bad guy fast because I'm not in a good situation for a corsair. With the poor acceleration, and climb once you get slowed up to the point of having the tight turning circle there are few options left for the hog driver unless you have the alt to dive away and regain your speed.

In regards to the stalls of the corsair. If you fly it enough you will get into some very nasty low speed stalls that are nearly unrecoverable unless you have plenty of air under you. I have recently been transitioning to the 109-G2 and was pleasantly surprised to see how docile the stalls were in comparison to the F4U.

[SgtPappy]

Though it might be an issue of stability more than anything. Though you can get it into horrible stalls as I have and never recover, it still seems more stable than it should be.. compared to other planes I find lovely Blue will get into nasty stalls as easily as the rest of them.

If it became more unstable, this would mean that it would pull less angle of attack at low speed in order to get into a nasty stall than it does currently. But I don't know for sure.

[dtango]

Anax:

The last time this subject was brought up it went on for 16 pages.   

Specifically if you want some serious physics check of this you can read Brooke's work on the matter.  Be sure to scroll down toward the bottom where he addresses the F4U in his appendix.

http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/aces_high/stallSpeedMath/turningMath.html

The cliff notes - the F4U in real life had an amazing cl/cd ratio with full flaps and the calcs correlate with the performance we see in AH.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

[Ex-jazz]

Thank you dtango for the link.

Excellent source for hobbyist flight model maker. <S>


And yes. The F4U has a secret levitation generator under the pilot seat 

[whiteman]

I love the UFO and helicopter PM's.

[Puck]

It also had hydraulically controlled mounts that allowed the engine to tilt slightly and provide vectored thrust.  That's a large part of why the nose is so long.


here, fishy fishy...

[ink]

Here we go again.

i will say this, you are by far the best i have seen in a f4     


i kill them very easily most of the time unless the stick is a real good shot, Shawk comes to mind,or even Kostic, he is a very good shot, but he wont try to truly turn fight my Hurri.
  you on the other hand make that plane move wonderiously!