Decouple convergence and gun elevation

[Nuku]

Right now, setting the convergence point affects both the horizontal convergence of the guns, and the elevation of the guns such that the highest point of the lofted rounds touch there.

I'd like to see the two decoupled, to allow me to cant the guns upward to make compensate for high-G turn fights but still having the rounds merge horizontally less than 300 yards  in front.

[flakbait]

You want to be able to control the rise of the rounds, yet expect them to actually hit the same point on the gun sight? Can't be done without re-doing EVERY gun sight that's been made. On top of that you'd get a LOT of people screaming to undo it as historically you couldn't change the rise of the rounds by much. Right now there's two points where the rounds impact the aiming point. Someone posted a diagram of a P-38s guns like this in General Discussion.

All in all, I'm against this. It'd be like introducing full blown engine management. Too many people would be against it, and the newbies won't be helped one bit.



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Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School
"My art is the wings of an aircraft through the skies, my music the deep hum of a prop as it slices the air, my thrill the thunder of guns tearing asunder an enemy plane."
Flakbait
19 September 2000

[Suave1]

I didn't know that convergance adjusted elevation too .

[Nuku]

 

Originally posted by flakbait:
You want to be able to control the rise of the rounds, yet expect them to actually hit the same point on the gun sight? Can't be done without re-doing EVERY gun sight that's been made.

Why would that be?  You're looking so hard for a reason to make it not work that you're not seeing how it could work.  If you like your custom sights (I don't), then you stick to coupled convergence and elevation.  I'm asking for an option to decouple them.

On top of that you'd get a LOT of people screaming to undo it as historically you couldn't change the rise of the rounds by much.
[/b]

If you can cant 4-20mms high enough to merge vertically at a point above the aircraft water line 750 yards downrange, then at 200 yards, they'll hit even higher, but spread apart horizontally.  I'm asking for the 750 yard vertical cant, while allowing for horizontal convergence at 200.  I'll make my own sight to deal with it.

It'd be like introducing full blown engine management.
[/b]

You've already got prop-pitch and fuel management, but no one's squeaking about that.  It's because they have *Defaults* that you can use so you don't have to worry about it.  Prop-pitch defaults to max RPM, fuel-tanks default to automatic switching.  For my gunsight idea, the default is as it is today, with the option to split.


Too many people would be against it, and the newbies won't be helped one bit.
[/QUOTE]
You're one.  The newbies can't hit squat in a turn-fight at 150 yards because they can't pull enough lead.  Canting the guns up will help compensate for the extra lead needed while loading the airframe.

You can be against it, but with the default behavior being coupled elevation and convergence, you won't even notice: just like you don't notice that you have prop-pitch and fuel tank control.

[Minotaur]

I have a feeling that the way the guns are used in the game most of the time and how they were (are) used are miles apart.

• RL - Ambush and G unloaded shots
• AH - Often pulling G's to get lead

I have read that sometimes pilots in dedicated ground attack planes would cant the guns downward with no convergence.  I am not sure if the reverse is true, canting the guns upward.  Seems you would have an easier time hitting a target under G load.  You could see your bullet stream as well.

Anyone know for sure?

I have also heard of an "in game" work around for this.  You raise your cockpit head position a couple of notches and then re-adjust your sight.  Seems to help players shoot better under G load.  I have tried it and does not help me.  It might be worth a shot.

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble

[miko2d]

 Not only the horisontal convergence does not have to be coupled with vertical one, in real  life most pilots never used convergence. They used harmonising.
 If they prefered to shoot at 300 yards, they would set the eight guns of the P47 not to hit the same point at 300 yards, but different points within, say 4 feet circle.
 Instead of cone of fire, they had more of a  cylinder-like shape. While reducing the optimal hit density, that increased their probability to hit, especially at the ranges different from confergence.

 But forget about adjusting the gun elevation to compensate for Gs - they did mot have that much of adjustment range. There were some variants with slanted fixed guns but the only one widely used was Bf110 in it's night interceptor variant.

miko

[funked]

Several times people have posted scans of gun adjustment charts from wartime manuals.  Most of these planes had adjustments for horizontal and vertical convergence or harmonization or whatever you want to call it.