A new arena with harder settings

[NoBaddy]

No map and no icons.  Only dar available in the tower.

yeah...and when u die, you are dead. Create a new account. 

[Saxman]

4. Auto-retract flaps. This is the one change that might have an effect on gameplay. After lots of incidences of having flaps torn off or jammed, people might be as reluctant to use flaps as heavily as we do in-game, and would stick with the maneuvering settings that have a wide safety margin at high airspeeds.

I'd agree to this with the following point:

Aircraft whose flaps were designed to either blow-back or otherwise auto-retract should STILL auto-retract (F4Us and F6Fs should be able to pre-set two notches of flaps and have them drop and blow-back as speed allows, the N1K2 should have its auto-flaps, etc).

CJ,

No icons until 400 yards is RIDICULOUSLY close, as most aircraft would have been easily identifiable well beyond that range (and once again, the game can't show enough detail to identify that plane). I think setting the icons like if FSO would be fine for the Mains. Close enough to be more challenging without being too restrictive.

[rabbidrabbit]

Personally, I would like to see the arena options to include a better set of icon options for CM's

For example, I would also love to see the option of letting the CM's select a dot color so when the bogey is still some dots they are one color for friendly and another for enemy. It would also be nice if they could select more variables as to when different icons (range/type) would show up.

In my ideal world there would be no ranges.  Rather, enemy "dots" would be grey and friendly ones green.  Once within 1.5 k maybe type would show up but not range.  This would add a lot to ACM and realism while giving some grace to reality.  You could tell if they are bad or nice just the same and ID type at about the same range but SA would be beyond cartoon mode and camouflage pattern selection would actually make some difference.

As has been discussed REPEATEDLY, icons are there to compensate for the limitations of the game. A plane that could be clearly identified at 1000yds in real life is just a black speck at the same distance in the game. Monitors don't have high enough resolution to properly render these aircraft.

Additionally, in the game we don't have depth perception, so while in real life it was clear if a plane was flying towards or away from you you DON'T have that visual reference in the game. The icon counter, once again, compensates for this limitation.

[CJ nitro]

Oh yeah, maybe 400 is a bit too close but close enough to gain some surprise on the enemy if they aren't looking around would make it downright dangerous to stop paying attention. That's what would make things good for gameplay IMO
. As far as flaps go I agree as well. If a plane has the ability for auto flaps then keep it. The vehicles and planes should all be modeled like the real thing as far as this aspect goes. If a plane had lead computing gunsight, model it. If a plane had wings that folded up on the flight deck, model it. That's what I would be looking for in the sim side of things. Please don't get me wrong about the game and the work ht has put into it. I'm not whining or upset. Nothing wrong with the game outside of the usual complaints seen on the bbs. Just left with this wondering of why with so many arenas that are usually empty except one with a constant busy signal, (arena caps) there isn't one with the max you can get, full tilt, can't get more realistic than this kind of arena where all the stops are pulled and there's no crying in baseball. Game has been going for how many years now? No arena that is opposite the gamey side for the real sim nuts. I fall in between sim and game but crave more towards realism the more I play this game. Even if they tried some of these ideas a tour at a time, and I don't mean just my ideas the gameplay would be able to change as a whole for the better. Maybe a list of tried and failed ideas as a sticky here would make a difference as far as saving time? Didn't mean to hijack the thread either now.



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[BnZs]

Personally, I would like to see the arena options to include a better set of icon options for CM's

In my ideal world there would be no ranges.  Rather, enemy "dots" would be grey and friendly ones green.  Once within 1.5 k maybe type would show up but not range.  This would add a lot to ACM and realism while giving some grace to reality.  You could tell if they are bad or nice just the same and ID type at about the same range but SA would be beyond cartoon mode and camouflage pattern selection would actually make some difference.

Range and closure rate are more important and often easier to see than type. It would be more realistic to have an icon saying "sumthin -1.5K" than type with no range/closure clues. With no range/closure clues and having to work with a monitor, you'd have guys practically ramming each other before they could even ascertain if the other fellow as coming or going.

[rabbidrabbit]

Range and closure rate are more important and often easier to see than type. It would be more realistic to have an icon saying "sumthin -1.5K" than type with no range/closure clues. With no range/closure clues and having to work with a monitor, you'd have guys practically ramming each other before they could even ascertain if the other fellow as coming or going.

Try turning icons off and using zoom...  If you have done it a bit rough range estimation is not as hard as you think.

[tokenjo]

I flew AW FR, true the numbers ran about 50 - 70.   I do believe they're two different types of sim players in this game, the xbox pilots and the IL2 pilots squeezing both into one arena setting trying to please all is understandable if limited by server space.  However, we have two spec events arena's, are both used at the same time?  Is it a matter of server space?   If not then cant one of these arena's be converted to a testing arena of sorts for this purpose?

I liked the limited icon idea.  Maybe just a +/- by it at 5k.  distance at 2k, then ID at 1k ?  Would also like engine over heat, gun jambs and perked bomber drones added to the list. 

Tokenjo   

[Traveler]

If you are going for more RL, Engines can’t be run full out 100% or the time.  Not without over heating.  I actually have time in P40, F4UA1, P47, T6 and B25.  I spent several summers ferrying these aircraft from AirShow to AirShow for a company that made a bundle of money putting these war birds on display at Air Shows all over America.

My Dad flew P47’s and P51’s in WWII , he taught me to fly in an old J3 Cub.  He got credit for two 110’s and  four Trains.  He said he hated attacking trains in the P51’s because of the radiator.  The Jug could take a lot more punishment then the 51.  According to him he was never in a dog fight, they attacked from above in High speed dives, firing  on their target.  If the aircraft went down it went down. They never turned back to reengage.  They were to busy managing power, fuel consumption, navigating and time on target.

My point is that flying a complex high performance aircraft is a ton of work, let alone fight it in combat.  Most of the AH players including me, would not be up to the task.
They also never just jumped into their aircraft and took off to find the enemy.  They flew in pack of 4 and 8.  They also didn’t engage every target  they saw.  They flew their mission.

[Boozeman]

Heh.  No.  But that wasn't the OP's suggestion.

I do think that many posters here have a tendency to elevate the guys who really flew these things to superhuman levels of skill and ability in their minds when they talk about how hard they were to operate.  These were 18,19,20, 21, 22 year old kids being taught to fly and fight in these over time periods as short as a month.  If they were as superhumanly hard to operate as many would have us believe then there is no way they would have been useful warmachines.

Thanks for the clarification. I am quite aware that most online pilots have vastly more combat experience than their RL counterparts, and also have the luxury to die a thousand times and each time they have the chance to learn from these deaths. It could be said that the online pilots are "superhuman" in that regard. But that is why I think a "harder" (some might say harder than reality) arena makes sense. It will give a challenge to those who think the current arenas are not challenging enough.

Some things i'd like to see in such an arena that some ppl might consider harder than in RL:

- Reduced ammo effectiveness by at least 50%, possibly more.
- Drastically reduced icon ranges/information.

Without going into too much detail, such an arena should make the "quick sucsess with little effort" flying style/tactics unfeasable and (hopefully) thus being inattractive for that kind of players.   

Just by looking in the AH general forum now, it seems such an arena is long overdue.   


 
   

[Saxman]

If you are going for more RL, Engines can’t be run full out 100% or the time.  Not without over heating.

It's already been posted and proven several times that while maintenance time might increase, the concept that these engines would overheat and shut down mid-flight is a total BS limitation.

The only place I think a power-limit should be imposed is on BUFF formations. THAT is BS that bombers can run full power and not lose their drones.

[ImADot]

Some things i'd like to see in such an arena that some ppl might consider harder than in RL:

- Reduced ammo effectiveness by at least 50%, possibly more.
- Drastically reduced icon ranges/information.

Without going into too much detail, such an arena should make the "quick sucsess with little effort" flying style/tactics unfeasable and (hopefully) thus being inattractive for that kind of players.   

Maybe just have an arena without cannon-laden aircraft.  Or try flying an EW plane such as the Spit-1, Hurri-1 or C202.  No such thing as "quick success with little effort" in those.  I've been having a blast with the Hurri-1 (even in MW, LW and the DA), and I think it's making me a better combatant - I've learned patience and aim.

[Novice3]

This would b cool since more experienced  crowd could take their wrath on each other and not some noob and Me more importantly. Sweet. Imagine you guys could have arena without ,hording ,hoes and ganging what more could you ask for?

[CJ nitro]

My hope is that more than just the people who have played for a while go in there. It should be for anyone who wants a little more of a sim than a game. I don't want it to become an elitist club. Ill probably be too old to even use my joystick by the time something like this comes along in here though ha ha.

[Boozeman]

Maybe just have an arena without cannon-laden aircraft.  Or try flying an EW plane such as the Spit-1, Hurri-1 or C202.  No such thing as "quick success with little effort" in those.  I've been having a blast with the Hurri-1 (even in MW, LW and the DA), and I think it's making me a better combatant - I've learned patience and aim.

Been there, done that. Its still quite easy getting kills in those, thier guns are quite potent against fighters.

[Ack-Ack]

I didn't have an AW subscription (I was into space games at the time) but I recall reading that the RR was the "main" and the FR was quite underpopulated.



Yes... just what we need... another TA with lethality at 0.0001 and only 10 folks in it at any given time.

The OP also forgets to point out that AW FR has a flawed flight model, which made it actually harder than AH.  For example, in AH, if you blackout it's because the game is registering that you pulled too many Gs.  In FR AW, if you blacked out, it's because the game registered you using too much 'stick' force and blacked you out, it wasn't tied to how many Gs you pulled.  Which is one reason why those that played FR AW had an easier time transitioning to AH during the Exodus.


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