Flying the f4u1a

[99thABNSSGT]

Don't forget loops.... Putting flaps down while pulling up and over can help close the deal on P38's that were getting the best of my F4U going vertical and then over.

Once the F4U begins going downward retract the flaps and you can close the deal.

My 2 cents.

[mtnman]

I set my trim wheels to fly straight/level at about 300.  I have ACT off by default, but have a button mapped so I can easily go back and forth with it.  I do my "general" flying with ACT on, but turn it off when fighting, landing, damaged, etc. 

I never adjust it during a fight, apart from toggling it on/off as necessary.  If an opponent dives out and I'm going to pursue, I'll generally switch ACT back on, but if/when he breaks/reverses I turn it back off.  I'll also make sure I have it off if I'm roping, stalling, etc.  I don't necessarily switch it off immediately when I decide to fight.  I may leave it on if the passes are gentle, fast, etc.  When I decide to start getting serious the ACT gets turned off.

I'm not sure how much advantage that gives me, I just like the way the plane behaves better.  My squadie never turns his ACT off (except if damaged or landing), and doesn't have any issues either...

I have it off by default mainly because coming out of auto-climb, auto-level, etc I prefer to be in manual mode.

[Void56]

i understand that trimming is good, but i only know it to be good in situations like compressing. the corsair seems pretty stable so why would i take combat trimm off?

[TequilaChaser]

i understand that trimming is good, but i only know it to be good in situations like compressing. the corsair seems pretty stable so why would i take combat trimm off?

ok.here is an example of using Combat Trim  verses not using Combat Trim ( manual Trim per say )

you are fighting in the vertical and are coming over the top of a loop and as your opponent is viewing you fixing to ROPE him, he reverses and starts to dive away.......

with Combat Trim your plane takes a few seconds longer as CT ( Combat Trim ) moves in relation to your airplanes speed to stay in CALIBRATED TRIM

verses to have your plane Trimmed to a more neutral position ( example manually trimmed out for level flight 325 IAS and verify CT is turned off )


the plane that is trimmed to a more neutral setting is gonna gain speed faster........

also another example, you are in a slow speed fight, and you use CT....it is always trimming for you to keep your nose level/up to where using flaps  becomes a fight within itself......making your NOSE "POP" up when you kick out a notch or another notch........

You want to have your plane ( any Plane ) trimmed to where you have to use a SLIGHT PULL on the stick to bring guns to bear, or obtain a shooting solution......... you never want your plane to be to where you are pushing on the stick to aim or fighting the CT to aim your guns.....

YMMV  hope this helps

[Bronk]

Thanks Tc & Mtnman   That was just the info I was looking for. <S>

[SgtPappy]

TC, when you state to trim the Hog at 300 to 325 mph range, do you mean before entering combat, I should trim my F4U as if it was at that speed range?

Because when I fly the P-38 or Spitfire, I trim to a practically neutral position right before entering combat. (on the elevators anyway).

[mtnman]

I take off and climb, then level out and build speed to about 300 (or 325, whichever you prefer).  I then shut off the ACT, and trim ailerons and elevator to fly level "hands off" at that speed (NOT in auto-level while trimming).  I then continue flying (but may go auto-level, or engage the ACT until I find a bad guy).

Now that my trims are set, all I need to do is turn the ACT off and the trims will go back to that pre-set point...

In the hog, I'll have a bit of right aileron and down elevator trimmed-  I won't be at a neutral elevator setting, as that would cause my nose to pitch up at that speed.

Once you know where the trims should be visually on the indicators, you can set them there while at any speed.  It's just easier to reach that speed first, and then trim for level flight.

Another option that I use (since I have rotary trim knobs) is to put little marks on the rotary knob itself, so I can put it there at any time, and put it back quickly if I bump it...

[TequilaChaser]

TC, when you state to trim the Hog at 300 to 325 mph range, do you mean before entering combat, I should trim my F4U as if it was at that speed range?

Because when I fly the P-38 or Spitfire, I trim to a practically neutral position right before entering combat. (on the elevators anyway).

yes, pretty much the same thing, Pappy. When one is flying along in level flight you normally are around 300 to 325 +/- IAS speed......maybe a smidge faster......so when I am fixing to engage another opponent I will shoot to obtain this speed whether I am in level flight, or if I may need to dive slightly .....I will use either the manual trim keys or do a quicky by using the ACT ( CT ) keys turning them on then once reaching ym desired speed turning it back off.......
for me anyway I can tend to push the Hog harder and get more out of it instead of having Combat Trim turned on...... I use this in most all USA planes....... about the only time I will ever engage Combat trim or trim the elevators is when I am in a match up with the same plane type and I feel I am not gaining any more angles......but this is very seldom like 0.005% of the time.

sorry for the long rant, but is probably similar to how you described your way of flying the 38 or spitfire.......

if memory serves me right, mtnman, AKDogg and  alot of others fly the Hog ( trimming it wise ) almost identically.......

hope this helps...

[Patches1]

I'm confused...

ACT vs CT...?

I use auto climb on speed to gain altitude (default)...then at altitude I engage auto level (default) and hold until I've the speed and altitude I want, and manually trim as necessary, in conjunction with manifold pressure and rpms, depending upon altitude and loadout, and then, I use auto angle to maintain a climb rate (500-1000 ft per minute) as I see fit.

I trim differently when in a heavy 100% fuel and ord loaded -1D Corsair than I do with a 25-50% fuel loaded, no Ord, -1, or -1A Corsair.

When you trim a Corsair (any model) to 300-325 IAS, does it matter what load and altitude you are at?

[TequilaChaser]

I'm confused...

ACT vs CT...?

I use auto climb on speed to gain altitude (default)...then at altitude I engage auto level (default) and hold until I've the speed and altitude I want, and manually trim as necessary, in conjunction with manifold pressure and rpms, depending upon altitude and loadout, and then, I use auto angle to maintain a climb rate (500-1000 ft per minute) as I see fit.

I trim differently when in a heavy 100% fuel and ord loaded -1D Corsair than I do with a 25-50% fuel loaded, no Ord, -1, or -1A Corsair.

When you trim a Corsair (any model) to 300-325 IAS, does it matter what load and altitude you are at?

my apologies, I get confused when mtnman types ACT......... when I see ACT I am thinking Automatic Combat Trim, where as mtnman might be thinking Auto Climb Trim? I am not sure.......

to me ACT  & CT is the same meaning ( Automatic Combat Trim )  I have never used the ACT abbreviation until this thread.......  I either type Combat Trim, Auto Level/Autopilot  or Auto Angle/ Auto Climb Speed   and use CT as an abbreviation for Combat Trim

when I talk about level flight / cruising speed of 300 to 325 or 350 I am refering to a F4U ( any type ) that is in a clean configuration, no DT's ( or dropped DT's if I was carrying them ) and no ordanance....... the fuel load does not matter.....

alot of people practice often flying at 25% fuel load and fighting or flying at a maximum of 50% fuel load and fighting..

I highly recommend people to gain full potential to learn their plane with 100% and / or 75 % fuel loads and fight them this heavy........ for the simple fact you are not always going to be with a light fuel load say 50% or 25 %, and if you can learn to max maneuver your plane with 100% or 75% then flying with lesser fuel loads just adds icing on the cake for you to prevail......

hope this long rant helps clarify.....

[Saxman]

I almost always take the heavier fuel load in the 1A, anyway (generally 75%, but may take 100% if I'm expecting a longer sortie). It gives you longer loiter time and more gas if you take a hit to the main fuel. 25% in the right wing will get you about a sector or more on standard cruise speeds by itself and longer if you use what gas you have in the main first or if you dial your MAP and RPMs down even lower than cruise.

Learning fuel management in the F4U--particularly the 1 or 1A--is important. Pilots unfamiliar with her (especially who mostly use her to Jabo off the CV in a 1D or C) forget about the additional tanks on the 1 and 1A and often tend to underestimate her range, which while not QUITE Mustang-level is still VERY impressive (VMF-251 flew two very long-range escort missions in 1As and 1s in Frames 2 and 3 of the last FSO respectively, entirely on internal fuel. Only had one who ran out of gas before returning home and it was because he burned his wing tanks too low and took a main fuel hit). At 1.0 fuel burn the 1 and 1A have a combat radius of ~400 miles (800 miles round-trip) JUST on internal if you make use of cruise speeds. A 100-150 mile combat radius is probably a safe bet in the Mains, with plenty for operation at combat power. You should NEVER need a drop tank with the 1A unless you're flying some absurdly long sorties.

Also, if you fight the F4U fast the fuel load won't have as big of a negative impact on flight performance as it would if you're trying to dance low and slow with Spits (another good reason to keep the Hog at higher speeds). Not only that, but that extra weight will give you a little bit of help in the zoom (probably fractionally at best, but every little bit helps).

[mtnman]

Yup, sorry- ACT is "Auto Combat Trim" in my book. 

I always lift with 100% fuel.  Maybe twice per year I lift with 75%.  I don't take a DT with the -1A, which is my normal ride.  If I fly the -1C or -4 I take 100% with a DT.  I just trim "close" until I drop the DT, and fly with Auto Combat Trim on until I ditch the DT.

I haven't flown with rockets or bombs for a few years, so I don't take them into consideration when I trim.

I generally trim it at 10-12K, but I tweak it a bit as needed.  I don't necessarily set it and leave it.  It actually becomes second nature to adjust trim without even really thinking about it.

[Getback]

Be careful with trimming the plane. If you trim too much you will lose lift very easily. Go to the TA to test first. Additionally, my preference is to hit flaps only when I know it will bring me around quickly to my target. Then I quickly release them to gain speed. Of course that would depend if I killed my prey. I'm not a big fan of full flaps. However there are times that is necessary.

[SgtPappy]

Thanks again, Gents.

Mtnman, your mentality in dogfighting is absolutely superb.