AH vs NACA rollrates

[Hristo]

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Hristo:
(Image removed from quote.)

Take a look at the known control used for the NACA data. Stick force was limited to just 50 pounds. This will limit aileron deflection at higher speeds in some, if not all of the aircraft tested. Therefore, "real world" roll rates can be expected to vary from the NACA chart.

My regards,

Widewing

[minus]

bureocracy

[funkedup]

Nice job Hristo.

[Naudet]

The main prob i see in here is the limited stick force.

in a plane without power boosted ailerons (P38L/FW190D13) the stick force is the most limiting factor to roll rate.

the diagramm tells us that at 50lbs the planes have the shown rollrates, but what happens at 60lbs, 70lbs and so on, and how far is this force increasing in relation to possible roll rate at that specific force.

i.e. u have two planes that must use 30 lbs stick force to roll 50 degree sec at a given speed, but plane #1 will roll at 120 degree/sec at 60lbs plane #2 will only manage 90 degree/sec at 60 lbs (due to airflown, areodynamics and other factors applied to the aileron), this might go on like this. here a short table of this example

force/rollrate#1/rollrate#2

30/50/50
40/65/60
45/80/69
50/95/78
55/108/85
60/120/90
65/130/93
70/138/95

if u take this table and imagine the influence it has on a fight between both planes (all other factors the same-but roll rates remain in the same ratio over the whole speed range)
#1 will always have an advantage due to easy handling

u can also go through it even more
consider #1 has reached max aileron deflection at 70 lbs so planes max roll rate will stay at 138 degree/sec
#2 has not reached max deflection at 70lbs. and would if u increase force to a bone breaking 200 lbs be capable of also 138 degree/sec but what pilot would ever be able to do so

Now to have max possible roll rates, it would be could to have a table that shows stick force needed to deflect ailerons full at any given speed and also roll rate at that speed
in a 2nd table u than would have to find out what the AH-alter-ego-pilot would be capable of and find the roll rates related to that force, it would even be possible that in some planes the stick force for full deflection is below the max possible AH-pilot stick force which means the plane would be really easy to handle

[ 07-28-2001: Message edited by: Naudet ]

[ 07-28-2001: Message edited by: Naudet ]

[hazed-]

i guess what you're saying is that even though the AH p51 has higher roll rate than the charts it doesnt matter because the chart is wrong right?
so why show the chart?  
is the p47d1 and the one in the chart accurately different? the p47c on the chart was so much worse than what we fly in the game?
others look pretty accurate to the curves, why is this and does HTC use these charts?

[Naudet]

hehe Hazed actually i say:

 If AH models more than 50lbs stick force at max joystick deflection, all roll rates must be above the NACA curves

and on the other hand if we have em below 50lbs they should all roll slower

and finally (otherwise i would not be a good LW whine)

i say i wonder why all other AH planes except the FW190 roll faster than in NACA and FW190 tends to be the closest to the NACA curve from all

[ 07-28-2001: Message edited by: Naudet ]

[niklas]

Originally posted by Naudet:


 If AH models more than 50lbs stick force at max joystick deflection, all roll rates must be above the NACA curves

Only above that critical speed where the rollrates curves have their peak. Below that speed, it wouldn´t make a difference whether you pull with 60,70 or 100lb because you have already full deflection of the aillerons with 50lb.
Pls note that the P63 never reaches 50lb stickforce according to the chart, at least not in the given speed range. You have no real peak. wing deformation seems to be the limiting factor here.

niklas

[Karnak]

Naudet,

Possibly because the Fw190 and Spitfire (it also matches the NACA peak) both hit full deflection with only 50lbs of stick force ant cetain speeds.  At higher speeds the highere AH stickforce simply means their roll rates decline at a slower rate than they do in the 50lb NACA test.

The thing that is odd is that both the NACA Spitfire and NACA Fw190 roll faster at low speed than the AH Spitfire and AH Fw190.

Of course, all this is just guessing, without confirmation from HTC we really have no way of being sure what is going on.