Author Topic: Total noob with questions, be warned!  (Read 1872 times)

Offline NHattila

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Re: Total noob with questions, be warned!
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2009, 05:15:39 PM »
Didn't have time to read all the posts and I'm not suer if anyone has mentioned this, but in some planes there is alot of torque and it's alot easier if you just turn the engine off just before you touch down. Lets you roll out in a nice straight line if you are looking for a clean looking landing or rearm. This is especically helpful in F4's and Typh/Temp's for newbies.
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Offline mtnman

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Re: Total noob with questions, be warned!
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2009, 06:26:52 PM »
Didn't have time to read all the posts and I'm not suer if anyone has mentioned this, but in some planes there is alot of torque and it's alot easier if you just turn the engine off just before you touch down. Lets you roll out in a nice straight line if you are looking for a clean looking landing or rearm. This is especically helpful in F4's and Typh/Temp's for newbies.

I'd hesitate to avoid this, because IMO it's just avoiding the problem and avoiding learning how to deal with it.  Learning to deal with the control problems of landing goes a long way towards developing a feel for other slow flight aspects.  Similarly, I wouldn't tell someone to use Auto Takeoff when they ask how to takeoff.

Specifically in the F4U, most landing difficulties can be eliminated by flaring and slowing to a stall just as your wheels hit.  My touchdown speed in the F4U is around 80 (maybe slightly less).  Holding the stick back after touchdown and a bit of differential wheel braking eliminates the nasty landing of that and any other plane in the game.  I've helped a lot of people learn to land easily in an F4U.  Every single one had problems due to excessive speed at touchdown, and every single one found it much easier to control if they held the plane off the runway until the plane slowed down.
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Offline Tigger29

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Re: Total noob with questions, be warned!
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2009, 08:08:57 PM »
Here's how I land...

1>  Approach the airfield at 10K+
2>  Dive steeply
3>  Approach the runway at 400+MPH
4>  Apply full right rudder
5>  At about 200MPH (faster in some planes) keep hitting the landing gear button until you hear CREAK CREAK CREAK
6>  At about 150MPH (faster in some planes) keep hitting the flaps down button
7>  Release rudder and center while touching down 2/3rds of the way down the runway, apply brakes
8>  While approaching the end of the runway, veer to the left side of the runway, apply full right rudder and full right brake
9>  Flip sideways (and upside down if I'm lucky) and skid to a stop on the pavement.

OK.. not the BEST way to land, but it sure makes things interesting!

Of course, the procedure has to be altered just a bit in cases such as.. lets say... no engine.. no rudder.. no elevators... no wing...

Offline moot

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Re: Total noob with questions, be warned!
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2009, 06:21:46 PM »
I'd hesitate to avoid this, because IMO it's just avoiding the problem and avoiding learning how to deal with it.  Learning to deal with the control problems of landing goes a long way towards developing a feel for other slow flight aspects.  Similarly, I wouldn't tell someone to use Auto Takeoff when they ask how to takeoff.

Specifically in the F4U, most landing difficulties can be eliminated by flaring and slowing to a stall just as your wheels hit.  My touchdown speed in the F4U is around 80 (maybe slightly less).  Holding the stick back after touchdown and a bit of differential wheel braking eliminates the nasty landing of that and any other plane in the game.  I've helped a lot of people learn to land easily in an F4U.  Every single one had problems due to excessive speed at touchdown, and every single one found it much easier to control if they held the plane off the runway until the plane slowed down.
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Offline bj229r

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Re: Total noob with questions, be warned!
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2009, 08:37:44 PM »
Just got home from work and finished reading all the post since last night, great advice from everyone you guys are awesome! I think the best advice for me right now was to just take some time working on ACMs and getting more used to the plane. I have only been at this a couple days, but of course expect to be an expert by now. If it was easy what would be the fun. Thanks again guys, off to do some loops and yoyo"s and stuff!
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Offline DamnedRen

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Re: Total noob with questions, be warned!
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2009, 02:36:33 AM »
Welcome aboard :salute

While the game is one of the best dogfight sims around you do need to learn to crawl before you fly...errr....walk...

ACM is air combat maneuvering. This is used to gain a kill using BFM which is basic fighter manuevering.

What all of these acronyms means is..once you learn how to fly they become important. Until then suggest you fly a Japanese plane. They have big red targets painted on them which allows folks align more easily for a shot. :)

Ok, all jokin aside, first learn to fly. You asking how to land shows us how far you need to go. The good news is it sure is a lot of fun learning.

Ref: landing, speed is everything. When you want to land you are telling the plane you want it to stop flying. Under Control
As long as its moving forward with x amount of wind flowing around the wings it will fly. When you slow it to the point the air is no longer supporting the wing it will stop flying. For you to know what speed the plane flies at you need to be able to look at and read all the instruments on the ole dashboard. When you give her the gas and she begins rolling keep track of the airspeed indicator. Note the speed she wants to lift off. She will lift off when she gets flying speed. Now you know what speed she can fly at in a clean configuration. It may be 120 mph. It could be more or less depending on the plane. Now is where it gets tricky.
You speed will now depend on how high you have the nose as you climb out. There's an old saying. "pull back stick, houses get smaller". "Pull back stick more, houses get bigger". That can be taken two ways. You have enough speed to come over the top in a loop or (and more appropriately) you pull the nose up high enough until the engine/propellar can no longer sustain enough forward speed to continue flying and she stalls.  Ergo, houses get bigger....so if you continue a gentle nose up climb the plane can and will accelerate. No comes the fun part. If you level off the plane really wants to get moving. If you stay level for 5 minutes the plane will actually get up to her cruisin speed. It may be 280 mph or up to 325 mph again depending on the plane.
Altitude also plays a role in speed but that not required in this discussion at this time. So now you're cruisin along in level flight
at say 300 mph.  Yer getting kind of used to it. Wow, this is fun and I can turn and go or down. Cool! There in lies the problem for first time flyers. They get used to the speed. Now we get back to the topic...landing.

You got up up and climb out and did some basic flying around having a good time.

But now you wanna land it. You have a lot of altitude as you near the field. If you push the nose over gravity helps you and the next thing you know yer doing 400 mph. Hmmm...lessee I took of at 120 mph...I'm screaming outa the sky at 400 mph. Not very conducive to landing my plane in one piece. No problem I pull the throttle back to idle. Hmmm...not much change in speed. Wow, now I'm getting real close to the airfield. I level off a lil bit but the speed seems to still be up there in the 300 mph range. Since I have learned to look at the airspeed indicator I can see I'm way to fast...So how do I slow down? Easy, keep the throttle at idle and stay level for a while. The plane will begin to slow. If you dip the nose even a little bit the slower process takes longer. Stay level and let the plane continue to slow. Let her slow all the way down to that initial take off speed of 120 mph. Try flying at that speed with easy shallow banked turns. Hmmm... she still flies ok. So you know she took off and can fly at 120 mph. If you're level and you slow her by cutting the throttle just a little she begins to drop her nose and starts down again. At 110 mph she is nose down but under control. Its because you are not asking her to go up or even stay level but do a gentle descent.

Ok, now you have an idea that planes like speed, they also get sluggish when slow. They are sometimes hard to slow down. There are ways to speed up the slowing process...Is that an oxymoron? But your kinda new and it's better that you get a handle on a normal landing. You notice I haven't told you anything about landing yet? Read on...

Flaps. Flaps increase the wing area which there by increases lift. What does that mean? It means you can fly the plane at a slower speed than you took off with in the clean configuration. If you take off at 120 and she flies then adding flaps allows you to slow and still fly to around 100 mph. Again speeds are relative to the diffferent types of planes. So if you added flaps and let the plane slow to 100 mph she will fly about the same as if you had the flaps up at 120 mph. Again if you cut the throttle to slow to 90 mph her nose drops and she starts down again. 

Gear. Scraping the belly of the plane gets yer mechanics mad cause they gotta fix it before you go back up. Gear is what you land on. Its a good thing cause you might wanna use that same plane again. Kinda like a fuel and go. Putting the gear down increases drag on the airframe. When you put it down the plane will want to slow some. To maintain level flight you will need to add a little throttle.

Just about every plane (there are some exceptions) has a gear over speed limit. At 200 mph if you dump the gear out it's a good possibility that the gear will rip off. Not a good thing. You also know that your plane flies ok at 120mph clean. So what's a good speed to dump gear? 190 mph? 130? 150? what? Here's an easy way to confirm you wont rip your gear off. Most (not all) AH planes will usually not extend flaps over 160 mph. If your speed is in excess of 160 mph they just won't go down. Hmmm, if I can put my flaps down at 160 mph then why not put in flaps at 160 mph when they go down then put out the gear? If the flaps on that spitfire you took up will go down then the gear will also safely extend. One number to remember for that plane. That's kinda easy! In fact, if you use 160mph for all planes in the game (for landing) and you add flaps then extend the gear you will never lose it. 

So let's take a spitfire mkV for a ride. Go into the hanger, take 1/2 tank of gas. Take a runway like SW or W. Take off, note the speed she breaks ground. Got it? cool! Climb out and fly around some. Enjoy the ride. You probably flew a few miles from the field. Turn back and cut the throttle and let the nose drop some. Let her descend until she is within a few 1-2000 feet above the field and level off. Ok lets doa  checklist.
1) Yer level and cut throttle to slow at 2000 ft near the field its easier to circle for the approach away from the field. Although you can use a landing pattern which is designed to take you out of cruise flight into landing pattern alt and speeds. For now, just stage out away from the airfield a bit.
2) You get down to 160 mph and hit flaps down the plane will continue to slow because the throttle is back and you're level
3) Dump the gear. Now the plane really begins to slow and you must add some throttle to maintain level flight. At this point you are flying near the airfield and have slowed to a point you can begin an approach. There is no VASI or PAPI (approach light guidence systems) so the easy way is to use your gunsight and point yer guns at the near end of the runway. Now you are actually aiming yer plane at a landing point. Cut throttle and let the plane slow to 100 mph.
4) As you near the end of the runway cut throttle a little more and let the plane slow to 90 mph.
5) As you come over the end of the runway you will be low and you need to look down to the far end of the runway for
alignment.
6) Ease throttle off more and gently ease the nose up. The will slow you a lil more and the plane will begin to settle on the runway. Let it.
7) When you hear the thump and see she's down cut throttle and pull stick gently and slowly all the way straight back.
8) Backspace key is wheel brakes...use it to stop.

Alternatively, you can read through this a few times then come for a ride with me in my plane in the Training Arena (TA).
As I take you throught the landing I can call out the speeds and when Im doing what (as mentioned above) and you can see it unfold.

Hope this helps

Ren
Aces High Training Corps






Offline Enker

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Re: Total noob with questions, be warned!
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2009, 09:55:25 PM »
Actually dropping gear isn't strictly necessary to get a successful landing message. As long as you and on runway you are fine.
In some situations, particularly when having lost one gear due to battle damage, it's even highly advisable NOT to lower your gear at all.
Quoted for truth. In the MA, FSOs, etc. some pilots who have taken damage choose to land without their landing gears down in order to get down faster, particularly if the air is losing oxygen and gaining bullets.
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