Author Topic: cool down ...baby  (Read 2134 times)

Offline moot

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Re: cool down ...baby
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2009, 03:54:33 PM »
It'll depend on the throttle/cooling scaling.  It'll be a tradeoff in speed vs temp.  I don't see that it'll necessarily be a handicap to stay at MIL, the same way that you can save fuel by limping around - you trade the fuel for vulnerability or lack of competitiveness vs someone that'll have just rolled with more fuel and grabbed at full throttle.  You're giving up max performance for fuel economy.

And I don't see at all that it's doing something extra to throttle back.  We already throttle back.  Something really extra would be a new switch or button.  Like radiator flaps.
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Offline l0newolf

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Re: cool down ...baby
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2009, 04:06:33 PM »
huh never happend to me XD

Offline bj229r

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Re: cool down ...baby
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2009, 06:59:25 PM »
Right now, when I want to cool my engine I just disengage WEP.  Widewing's proposal would have me turn off WEP, and also reduce throttle.  To me, that's doing something extra.  I don't know if we're ever going to see eye to eye on that point.  Oh well.

No, not necessarily, but frequently enough! :P

No worries.
I think that viewpoint is incorrect---Right now, it simply isn't coded correctly. Turn your engine OFF for 2 min, or merely back off the wep for same. Turn engine back ON, and your engine is same temp in either case. That is simply WRONG, akin to a fully gassed up jug climbing as fast as an empty one. I suspect the cool-down rate we get currently is the one where the engine is merely at non-WEP. What is being discussed is, IMO, correcting faulty coding on HT's part.
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: cool down ...baby
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2009, 07:12:35 PM »
I think that viewpoint is incorrect---Right now, it simply isn't coded correctly. Turn your engine OFF for 2 min, or merely back off the wep for same. Turn engine back ON, and your engine is same temp in either case. That is simply WRONG, akin to a fully gassed up jug climbing as fast as an empty one. I suspect the cool-down rate we get currently is the one where the engine is merely at non-WEP. What is being discussed is, IMO, correcting faulty coding on HT's part.

Ahhh, the engine doesn't behave like it would in "real life?"  You don't want to go there. :t :lol  No, I'm not talking about Stig's paranoia regarding engine life.   ;)

Calling this behavior a bug is incorrect because it was intentional on the part of the programmer.  You may not like it, but it's not a bug.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2009, 07:18:06 PM by Anaxogoras »
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Offline bj229r

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Re: cool down ...baby
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2009, 08:48:11 PM »
Ahhh, the engine doesn't behave like it would in "real life?"  You don't want to go there. :t :lol  No, I'm not talking about Stig's paranoia regarding engine life.   ;)

Calling this behavior a bug is incorrect because it was intentional on the part of the programmer.  You may not like it, but it's not a bug.
I didn't call it a bug, I simply stated it isn't coded correctly. You are incapable of letting go of that previous thread about  engine management (in which HT biotch-slapped you)....in another thread I surmised Krusty was even more bull-headed than my often annoying wife in an argument...I now am of the opinion that you would be a more worthy adversary for her.
Quote
Ahhh, the engine doesn't behave like it would in "real life?
That is an incredibly insipid surmisal of what I said...give it up
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: cool down ...baby
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2009, 09:27:53 PM »
I didn't call it a bug, I simply stated it isn't coded correctly. You are incapable of letting go of that previous thread about  engine management (in which HT biotch-slapped you)....in another thread I surmised Krusty was even more bull-headed than my often annoying wife in an argument...I now am of the opinion that you would be a more worthy adversary for her.  That is an incredibly insipid surmisal of what I said...give it up

Oh the ignominy of HT disagreeing with me. :lol

Enough of the personal attacks.  That's the refuge of someone who can't hang in a debate.  All I've been doing is using the logic of past threads that most bbs users supported, but which now doesn't seem so attractive... :uhoh
« Last Edit: September 07, 2009, 09:31:13 PM by Anaxogoras »
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Offline E25280

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Re: cool down ...baby
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2009, 10:39:05 PM »
Oh the ignominy of HT disagreeing with me. :lol

Enough of the personal attacks.  That's the refuge of someone who can't hang in a debate.  All I've been doing is using the logic of past threads that most bbs users supported, but which now doesn't seem so attractive... :uhoh
Actually, they have demonstrated that your logic is quite faulty and not at all analogous to any "engine management" issue you are asserting -- you simply won't admit it.

It is a very simple question.  Would an engine that is off cool at a faster rate than an engine that is running?  If yes, then it should be coded as such.  If not, than it shouldn't.  Logic suggests that an engine no longer running does not produce more heat and should therefore cool faster than an engine still at idle.
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: cool down ...baby
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2009, 06:03:40 AM »
Of course I admit that an engine at, e.g. cruise settings, will generate less heat than an engine at full power.

What I mean by logic is taking the skeleton of an argument against one kind of engine modeling proposal, and applying it to another.  I'm talking about the high degree of emphasis placed on consequences to the game from modeling greater realism in anything.  In this case, a virtual pilot who did not throttle back after using WEP (if he had the opportunity) would be at a disadvantage when he needed to use it again 2 minutes later vs. someone in similar circumstances who did throttle back.  More WEP, more advantage.  This point follows by definition from what has been proposed.

Let's not let the subtleties of thermodynamics get in the way of dogfighting.

----------------------

I think HT called it selective realism.

It's not a coding mistake.  It is how it is intentionally.  Realize what a startling proposition it is that HT left out mixture, manual supercharger stages, radiator flaps and other things intentionally, but left out thermodynamics by accident.

---------------------

Now, go and convince him that I'm wrong so I can fiddle with the engine during combat. :)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 06:05:22 AM by Anaxogoras »
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Offline moot

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Re: cool down ...baby
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2009, 06:15:48 AM »
Like I said, the throttle/cooling scaling need to be known before you can say that it'll be a disadvantage to not throttle back.  This tradeoff is math and not philosophy. 
Maybe it was made as it is because it was expected that no one would care to fly at reduced throttle.  One less stone on the pile of items in the resource budget. 
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: cool down ...baby
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2009, 10:08:19 AM »
At this point, I've made the best arguments I can.  To all of you who participated in this thread up to now, remember that I don't mind being disagreed with, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to ask the toughest questions I can think of, or refrain from posing the most challenging objections.   I wouldn't be giving you all any credit if I did otherwise.

In the end, this will only be decided one way: either the engine cooling will change, or it won't.  Until then, I've had my fill of this discussion. :salute
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Offline moot

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Re: cool down ...baby
« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2009, 11:41:07 AM »
That's what I meant by asking the wrong question/person.  I don't really care about instruments.  All I care about are physics.  Look at it from my pov.. Physics as they are, with instrumentation this slimmed down, is enough to make the AH player base very bottom heavy.  Like 75-90% bottom heavy.
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