Looking for a little feedback, P-40E skin

[Guppy35]

Like I said Krusty, if HTC is ok with it, go for it.

It's not up to me.  If it was, I'd want more evidence to support the historical accuracy of the skin, and I'd wait and hope for an actual Merlin P40.

To me there is a world of difference between a Merlin 40 and an Allison 40.

That's my feedback.  You asked

[lyric1]

RAAF flew a number of models post-E, and we have 2 skins from them in-game.

Not correct.
 This plane was one I had posted in the forums & Rogerdee decided to do it. It is a E model.



http://www.cybermodeler.com/history/meteor/cresswell.shtml

[Banshee7]

Oh, snap! 

[Dux]

OMG Guppy... I drive by that plane every morning. It's not the actual plane, of course... but that's the scheme. "Stump Jumper", Hanscom AFB.

[Krusty]

Not correct.
 This plane was one I had posted in the forums & Rogerdee decided to do it. It is a E model.

The Aussies flew a lot of Ls, Ms, Ns, as well as Es, was my point. Not trying to insinuate anything.

[Krusty]

This thread's been quiet because I've been doing a little more digging. I have an interest in getting it right. Now, I admit I don't always do that, but I try so the effort is there even if the end result is inaccurate in some small way.

I found somebody online that had a book with some pictures that may help. He scanned a couple.





Now, from the 79 FG history I can gather, they didn't go operational until Mar 1943. They caught the tail end of North Africa, and then most of their time was serving in Sicily or Italy, and by Mar to Jun 1944 they were already transitioning to P-47s.

Looking at the first picture, that definitely looks like a yellow ring. I had to do some checking to verify the dates. 79th FG was stationed in Sicily around July-Sept 1943.

Looking at the second picture, that has to be January of 1944. It looks like there's a ring around it. Picture quality, film quality, makes it hard to determine if it's really red or yellow, however.

As a tying up of loose ends, I did find a reference to the short-tailed P-40F with the same codes, but the sand/brown camo. "P-40, Warhawk of 79FG, 86FS, serial number 41-14216, Curtiss P-40F Warhawk, plane was condemned May 26, 1943." That would be shortly after the 79th became operational. They would be flying mostly long-tails or later models, from pictures and profiles I've seen.

EDIT: oh, I wanted to note (but forgot) you can see the bar on the wing in the second photo, and it appears there's a ring around it. Doesn't look like there's a blue outline on the white bar, however.

[lyric1]

I would say the ring on the second aircraft is part of the camo pattern it is not a consistant round shape at all in appearance.

[Krusty]

Except for around the very top, it seems very uniform.

The problem is the photo is blown out there, along the upper spine. Can't tell if that's how the color actually looked, or just a "bloom" or bright spot from the way the photo was taken.

EDIT: It's possible this is a ring around it. To me it looks like that for sure. The color is the question for me.

That being said, it is possible they painted over the rings when they weren't used anymore, however the paint doesn't even closely match the camo around the star. I would think a similar shade would be used.

Like I said, I don't know the color of that particular one, be it yellow, or red, or sand/brown camo, but there's definitely something there.

Edit2: I keep forgetting to add things before hitting "send". Silsbee's "Veronica" is supposedly from early 44, so that's the time of the second picture. If we can figure out which color to make the ring, I'm all set.

[Guppy35]

Krusty I have the 79th history.  The Yellow ring is not from the Italy time frame, it's Tunisia/North Africa. 

[Krusty]

I don't suppose it mentions if/when they adopted red rings later?

[lyric1]

sorry double post.

[lyric1]

Here's a thought is it possible this aircraft was first used by the RAF then handed over to the USAF or a another USAF unit? Reason I ask it looks like there is a ring of some type there, & it also seems strange right where the unit numbers are it looks to me like a spray over occurred then this squadron units numbers were applied. You can see all three digits that are visible & all look like they have had some work done on them.

[Krusty]

Don't think so. While they had RAF paint schemes, the US roundels fully cover RAF roundels, if they need be painted over. On top of that, I don't know WHY they used RAF colors (maybe they just worked well?) but 79th FG had their planes assembled and flew them in from North Africa. They were factory fresh, at least when things started. As they got later and newer models they were probably straight from the US of A.

It's more likely that they had the yellow ring from US markings at one time, and then painted over it themselves. That, or it's red. If it's red that might explain why it blends in more with the surrounding colors. Red pigment on B&W film can be funny sometimes.

[Krusty]

Sorry for the lack of responses... Did some more researching, did some more skinning, and in between got busy, but never gave up on this.

As in this photo of a plane from the same group and from the same month as my Silsbee skin:



We can see for sure there has to be an outline around the stars and bars. On the fuselage, it could either be an outline or perhaps a painted over area of what used to be an outline.

However, we can see the wing, and there appears to be a faint outline (look closely, I can see it, it displaces the camo pattern) around the star and bar on top of the wing. It cannot be blue, as it is a very light pigment. There MUST be an outline around the white in the bars, but it isn't blue.

Given the time frame, given similar aircraft in the same theater with red outlines, given how red color can sometimes look very pale in black and white photos, as seen here: (for example)



You can see how the red and white stripes on the tail are almost the same.

Given all of this info, and more, I have gone with red outlines. I'm 99.9% sure this is correct. As a coincidental note, it also matches the model his son built with "inside info" -- which had red outlines.

Added fin flash (seems like similar craft have them, so included it)
Desaturated the camo colors a bit, which ended up changing the shade of green (for the better?)
red outlines
resized upper star-and-bar to proper size/ratio