Problem with trains

[Greebo]

Since placing the new city complexes into my MA terrain I've been trying to get the strat working again. I rebuilt the railways by hand rather than use the "redo all" button as I didn't want to reroute all of the 90 field roads again. So I have assigned each of the 21 railways to its correct strat, made sure it does not cross water or another road and ends next to its strat etc. Also each train group has been placed next to the first point of each railway and I used the "change all" button to assign each group of objects to their correct road.

The "obj report" button reports no problems with the terrain. However when I build the terrain and enter it I find the trains are not running, they just stay where I placed them using the TE, next to the start of the track. The trucks on their field roads work fine however.

The "redo objects" button cycles through the airfields but then gives an error box for each of the strats saying something like "Nothing to supply with road/track to/from zone 1 ord factory". You have to click OK for each strat in turn to finish the cycle.

I've looked through the oba and tra files and compared them to old backed up versions where the strat worked. The only thing I can see that is different is in the tra files the strat stuff comes below the field stuff in the new file where it was above it in the old file. I really can't see why that should make any difference though and it would be a pain to edit it by hand just to check.

Has anyone got any idea what is wrong here?

[Easyscor]

Don't place the cars by hand, use "Redo Objects" instead. Don't use Create all if you're happy with the routes of the tracks.

Actually, Create All is different now. You can select to install only Airfields roads or Factory tracks or Cancel, which is a very nice addition, wtg htc. Then, after you create the tracks, use Redo Objects to install convoys onto the roads and trains onto the tracks, don't do this by hand.

It takes 10 minutes before the first convoy runs, so you're probably not waiting long enough.

[Greebo]

Thanks Easyscor, you found the problem. The trains are actually working OK, I just wasn't waiting 10 minutes for them to start. Because I could see the trucks running when I took off I assumed the trains should be as well.

Incidentally I have previously tried deleting the trains and then rebuilding them in the TE using "redo objects" , but I got the same "nothing to supply" error messages as when I had hand built trains in place.

[Easyscor]

Roads can be a major pain when you revise a terrain.

You'll need to inspect all those conditions where it reports nothing to supply, and find out why. Chances are, the Last Point (train track?) is too far from the destination factory, or maybe it's left over from when you removed an old factory. I say that because you should have each road assigned to a base number, so you wouldn't get that particular error. After you have them all working without error, you should walk every road and track, from the First Point to the Last Point, looking for conditions where the tracks double back on themselves. Fix those as well.

[Greebo]

Thanks for the suggestions, but the roads all end on the strat square or next to it and there are no back doubles.

To help figure this out I built a test terrain with just the new city, an HQ and an airfield and town on it. I used create all to build the roads and then rearranged them to avoid two or more roads overlapping. Then I hit redo objects again. I got the same "nothing to supply" message on three of the five city strats and no trains on those tracks. The other trucks and trains built OK though.

I had a quick look at the terrain files before leaving for work. It looks like the TE is trying to build a track to the wrong square in the city. One of the affected strats is on square F7 in the city but the error message referred to square E7. The road ended in square F7.

Could someone else please else try building a test terrain to see whether this is a bug in the TE or something I'm doing wrong?

[Easyscor]

I'll have to check that out, probably this afternoon or tonight but it's a busy week.

[Easyscor]

At first I wasn’t able to duplicate this,* probably because I was using “Check Objects” instead of “Redo Objects”. I’ll point htc to this thread.

Bug: Using the “Redo Objects” button reports errors generated because of a conflict with (unnecessary?) tracks built into the cs city by the “Create All” tool.

Please, if the problem tracks are unnecessary, we need an erratum directing us to remove them. If they are necessary, then there’s a bug, and terrain builders need direction on how to manually fix it before submitting their terrain please.

More Details:
The track properties have a parameter to set the radius for the supply destination. If you set the parameter to 1 or 2 miles, all the tracks report the error, but if you set it for 8 miles, you pass all the tests, and there are trains installed at each track start. This might be the cause of the fast strat rebuilds reported in some of the forums. I think the strat might be getting 3 to 5 times the supplies it’s supposed to. I actually don’t think the extra tracks are necessary, and if the radius parameter works, only one track would be necessary for the whole cs city.

*Greebo, I ended up building a test terrain with HQs, airfields and maprooms for each country so that the Object Report wouldn't spit out any errors. I wanted to make sure I was checking trains and tracks, not something else. I got the same results that you did.

[Greebo]

Thanks for doing that Easyscor, its nice to know for certain I'm not doing anything wrong. If HTC could fix this and the cmpwater build bug in the next TE I'd be happy.

[MachNix]

I get the same "Nothing to Supply" error for tracks going to the strat cities when clicking the Redo Objects button after using the Create All function.

I have tried:

1. Running a single train with the properties set to All Country Objects with a radius of 8 miles.
2. Running 5 trains with their properties set to their appropriate factory with a radius of 8 miles.
and
3. Running 5 trains with their properties set to All Country Objects with a radius of 1 mile.

and still get the same error for tracks going to the strat cities.

Any chance of getting an "official" word from HTC in this decade?  Only a few hours left and then "Happy New Year!"

[Easyscor]

nm

[Greebo]

I'd like some official word about this and the cmpwater.bmp bug/problem as well. I'm pretty sure my hand built trains work OK but running "redo objects" is one of the checks you are supposed to do before submitting a terrain and currently I can't.

The cmpwater issue is more serious. I can't see HTC accepting a terrain that needs you to manually replace a file and then still crashes the TE whenever you try to build it. Its been ages since this problem was first reported and I still don't know if this is a bug in the TE or some other issue with both mine and other people's terrains.

Can we have some feedback please HTC?

[Easyscor]

It's speculation on my part, but I suspect they'll be dealing with these issues when they get back from the holiday next week instead of answering in here.

Good point about the cmpwater.bmp issue. So, we're encountering problems with the following:

cmpwater.bmp
Redo Objects (errors reported, trains not installed properly)
Trains at the strat cities (how many should we install and under what settings?)
Train tracks are installed to airfields instead of convoys.
All tracks are 10 miles, including roads back in the previous TEs.
Rebuild time for the cs cities is reportedly porked.
Relocation of the cs cities, back to the forward locations, can't be tested offline and doesn't appear to be working in the MAs.

Did I miss anything? Is the TE bug thread up to date?

[MachNix]

Just a quick note:  The tracks to the HQs do not produce the "Nothing to Supply" error when the Redo Object button is clicked so the problem is not with ALL trains -- just the ones going to the strat cities.  At least this is what I'm seeing on my end.  Could the problem be that the new cities are assigned to a field instead of a country?

Happy New Year everone!