Deflection shots FTW?

[Vapor]

Is the armor plate behind the pilot modeled in the game for the planes which had them? That might account for pilot protection from the 6 shot.

[VonMessa]

That is a great theory and I would be very interested in if this is correct or not. Anyone know?



Quincy

You could walk/drive to the office and ask them

[GNucks]

The ballistics model is affected by the speed of the firer, so I would guess the damage model is affected by the relative speed of the projectile to the target.

The best way I can think of to test this reliably is fly formation with an enemy bomber from the front, behind, left and right, and above and below and record the number of rounds it takes to do critical damage to individual spots on the A/C.

[Spork]

You could walk/drive to the office and ask them

Used to be able to, now they are out of Ft. Worth. Moved about... a month ago?

Still could drive I guess   

[TheRapier]

I think that one reason deflection might do more damage when you can hit is that there is less density of structure between you and the important bits you want to hit hard. For instance to hit the pilot from 6 position there are more structures in between the shooter and target. I don't know how HTC models these but there are definitely more from that angle.

On the other hand, doing a 90 degree deflection against the a/c planform, all bullets can directly hit the vulnerable bits without having to travel through other structures.

Just a thought. . .

[bozon]

In dead 6 shots, due to the scatter, a lot of the bullets are very near misses. Not all hits produce a hit sprite so it is hard to see since the max number of sprites is already showing. When you hit a larger surface all bullets will hit even with some scatter.

However, the most important aspect is how planes die in AH: you need to break a wing/tail, set fire to the engine or kill the pilot. When you shoot from dead 6 the parts that are most likely to take the damage are control surfaces: flaps, elevators, ailerons, rudder. They will soak up the damage and even if destroyed, the plane is still flying. You are much less likely to hit any of the critical components mentioned above. In top plane shots everything critical is exposed. If you fly the twin engine fighters, one of the more useful things you will learn is how much more survivable the plane is if you roll the plane to take the hits on the side instead of the very large top.

[Delirium]

If you fly the twin engine fighters, one of the more useful things you will learn is how much more survivable the plane is if you roll the plane to take the hits on the side instead of the very large top.

That is good advice no matter what you happen to be flying at the moment.

[Ack-Ack]

If you fly the twin engine fighters, one of the more useful things you will learn is how much more survivable the plane is if you roll the plane to take the hits on the side instead of the very large top.

Like Del pointed out, that is good advice no matter what plane you happen to be in.  However, in the P-38, it's very important to present as low as a profile as possible and that's why it's important to present the side profile as much as possible when being shot at.  Many think that because the P-38 is rather large for a fighter that its side profile must be as large but in reality the Lightning had the slimmest profile of any US fighter of the time.

ack-ack

[Wiley]

Like Del pointed out, that is good advice no matter what plane you happen to be in.  However, in the P-38, it's very important to present as low as a profile as possible and that's why it's important to present the side profile as much as possible when being shot at.  Many think that because the P-38 is rather large for a fighter that its side profile must be as large but in reality the Lightning had the slimmest profile of any US fighter of the time.

ack-ack

Definitely.  I generally find the P38 is pretty much the toughest plane in the game to hit from dead six as well.

Wiley.

[Murdr]

Would the stress on the airframe during scissors add to the ease of getting the wing to come off from a crossing shot versus a dead-six shot on a barely manuvering plane?

No, that's not modeled.  Structural parts can carry the same load up until the point they take enough damage to break.

[Murdr]

Another fact is that from dead 6 the energy is reduced due to the target flying away from the direction of the round. In head on shots the energy is increased. So in deflections the round is often more damaging than dead 6 shots. Again, I could be wrong but that is how I understood the game to be modelled.

You understand correctly more or less, but I don't believe the difference between a 6 shot and a 90 degree shot would be a huge difference in energy delivered to the target.

[Murdr]

1) Does this have something to do with how damage is modeled in the game, i.e. hits on a wider area of wing surface are actually more effective than hits in a single rear area?
2) Is the cockpit more vulnerable in a straight 6 shot than I think, and I should be aiming there rather than wing roots?
3) Is pilot head postion actually factored into the damage model?  (In other words, does looking back make you more likely to be brainboxed rather than hunkering down behind your pilot armor?)
4) What other factors might be at play here?

Thanks for any feedback.

 

1) I think some of this is a general lack of depth perception when you're firing on the rear profile of a plane.  In my experience when reviewing films, what looks like concentrated hits from a 6 shot, are actually quite dispersed along the surfaces of the plane.
2) I've also reviewed films of pilot wounds and found that what you think was a dead 6 shot was in reality a high 6 shot and there was a valid unobstructed shot on the cockpit.
3) no

[MajWoody]

Murdr is back from the abyss!