FSO Rules on CIC Orders

[AKKuya]

In Section 5

- All targets must be attacked within 60 minutes of the start of the frame. They must be attacked with explosive ordinance, (rockets and bombs) by a full squadron. Feints and diversions prior to a larger strike force do not satisfy the requirements of this rule. Simply strafing a target with fighters does not satisfy the requirements of this rule. CIC's are expected to construct their orders in such a way that the main attacks reach their targets by T+60. Administrator CM's may request copies of orders to evaluate the observance of this rule.

This part should be made a permament rule.  This will allow no more confusion on isolated instances on T+60 issues.

[qcarech]

the rules also said that the aircraft were not to attack the gv's and we (allied) had a 190 killing our gv's. Pchute was killed twice by the same 190 while on the ground in the city/factory zone by A43.
Not trying to change subject on ya AKKuya, ur issue needs to be addressed and/or solved, as im not sure what ur talking about, i wasnt involved in that. just wanted to throw the A/C vs GV issue out there an wondering whats up, and am not try to step on ur toes, <<S>> to u sir.
<<S>> QcareCH

[bc21]

so a "full" squad of 4 a/c attacks a target at t+59 then at t+100 a squad of 14 attacks same target is alowed?

[potsNpans]

Targets attacked by a currently defined "credible force" that's along for the ride.

[ghostdancer]

Most of the time the designer of an event defines what is a credible force for the event. So a credible force might be 15 (or more) planes in one event and maybe 30 or more in another instead of the more nebulous full squad which some will can interpret as a 4-6 squad. It really comes down to the design and number of attack and defense objectives in the design.

For example if you have 4 attack and 4 defensive objectives and a credible force is defined as 15 then that would tie up 120 pilots out of an average of 180 pilots per side. Leaving the CiC 60 pilots to deploy as he likes. Increasing the size of some attack forces or defense forces, etc.

Also in this scenario most times a late strike at T+85 by a second attack force is usually counter productive since the target got hit by a force of at least 15 and might have taken significant damage in that strike. Leaving very little for the late frame force to do. Plus usually it is better to increase escorts on attack forces to try to improve survibability of your jabos and buffs.

The key to all of this is of course for the designer to define the size of what a credible force is for his design and to make it large enough that a CiC is face with some tough choices to make.

[branch37]

When I designed the orders about a year ago, I assigned 3 squads of 7-10 or 11-15 pilots to every attack objective with buffs, heavy fighters and escorts.  Then I tasked a single 16-21 or larger squad for every defense target.  This seemed to work well enough to satisfy the rules.  IMHO its really not that hard to follow the rules.

[Viper61]

Well this post seems to be from my use of the Ar234s for a late frame strike in frame 01.  To clarify I followed all the FSO rules and all targets were hit by the required AC numbers and before H+60.

AKKuya - my orders were also sent to the CM 6 days in advance.  I always send in my Op Ords.  And I agree the Op Ords should be sent to the CM's.  This keeps accidents from happening when a CIC doesn't catch a special scenario rule.

as a general note:  Holding back resources for a late frame strike, provided you meet or exceed the main effort strikes to the targets prior to H+60 isn't confusing on the "why".  Its a planned operation to take advantage of the fact that planes start to run out of fuel at H+60 and the defender has to refuel.  So if I can plan for my high point AC (bombers) to attack your target while your defenses are lower (rearming) then my Offensive plan has out witted your Defensive plan.  And the Defending CIC or squads should pay the price.

If the defenders are always concerned about a late frame strike then a good defender will plan accordingly.  The rule changes being discussed in several of these threads are going to severally limit the late frame strikes.  I'm not talking about ADHOC efforts after the first strike.  I'm referring to planned efforts in formation and at altitude.

why would anyone want to remove this option in planning?  That's what I don't understand and no one has explained "why" no "planned" late frame strikes?  And again to clarify before anyone replies "Planned Late Frame Strikes" and not ADHOC thrown together strikes.

[FiLtH]

   I always felt the primary duty of a CO of any side is first to assure EVERYONE has fun. Victory is second.

[WxMan]

The victors almost always have fun, the losers almost always whine.

[branch37]

   I always felt the primary duty of a CO of any side is first to assure EVERYONE has fun. Victory is second.

This is what I go by.  Given yes it sucks when your squad is swarmed by 50+ bad guys and wiped out in a matter of minutes.  But the dogfight that starts at 25K and goes right down to the deck with both groups trying to gain an advantage is always fun regardless of the outcome.  Frame scoring usually takes second priority for me, unless we are in bombers.  But then when we are in bombers, hitting our target is our primary goal, and if we do this well then it is the same as the great dogfight. 

[Squire]

At this point im not envisioning adding another layer of responsibility to the Admin CMs. They have enough to do as it is. Having to review CiC orders every frame as a matter of course sounds simple enough but then over time there is going to be the perception that the CMs are responsible for ensuring orders are correct when its the job of the CiC and the squad leaders. If we need to look at a set of orders we reserve the right to do that as is the case now. I think that will suffice. All things considered FSO runs 36 frames per year with @ 350 per frame in two hour frames <whew>. With all that done there are remarkably few issues we have in gameplay. Just some perspective there and the players involved are the reason we have such smooth events. I have always been impressed with the level of cooperation we get in our events. 

[oneway]

The integrity of the game and its events starts at the bottom...with each individual player and the choices he makes

Having CM's reviewing CIC and CO orders is antithetical to this premise

The loudest voices should be heard from the bottom and then up the chain of command:

"Hey Boss...this flight plan will take far longer than the allowed 100 minutes to strike...are you sure about this?"

"The write up clearly states we need to be their within 100 minutes..."

[Hopper]

   I always felt the primary duty of a CO of any side is first to assure EVERYONE has fun. Victory is second.

I didn't realize this until last night.

No offense to perdweeb (in the score category I am pretty sure axis destroyed allied last night and they were good tactical orders) but frame 2 axis orders left many of us with little to no action the entire night.  And thats not very much fun.  I guess a CO should remember that everyone is here to get into a scrap, design the orders to allow that and then try to win.

Just my 2 cents

[BERN1]

sounds like I am glad I sat this one out see ya next month