how about neutral airfields then

[EVZ]

The Swiss used their Bf-109Es in several furious dogfights with the Luftwaffe over airspace incursions during the invasion of France, with the Luftwaffe losing a handful of He-111s and Bf-110s, to the loss of a few Swiss Bf-109s. now this sounds as if they were running with the fox and the hounds 

Do You have a source for this info david? I've never heard it before ... Generally the Swiss were VERY sympathetic to germany when the war started, in fact there were Swiss Sources that helped fund the early Nazi Party and place Hitler in power. STRONG anti-semitism and anti-communist sentiments were expressed by the Swiss. I know they "PUBLICLY" declared their intention to remain neutral and enforce restriction of Swiss Airspace, but I never heard of them doing anything more than COMPLAIN thru diplomatic channels about German Violations. I think I recall a few instances of Damaged Allied Bombers being intercepted by Swiss Fighters who turned back German pursuit and escorted the bomber to a swiss field.

Swiss Neutrality is legendary and goes back to the origin of the nation. Swiss INFLUENCE has ALWAYS been a major factor in European and World Politics.

As far as the GAME is concerned ... ? I don't see what purpose NEUTRAL TERRITORY would serve ???

[Reaper90]

I've read the same story about the Swiss 109's shooting down Bf110's, I'll scan and post the story tonight.

[davidwales]

yes its from a personal post ill get my history up and give you all the info , as it was a family thing as ack acks was , you cant beleive everything that was brought before the media during this time 

[USAF2010]

hmmm quite interested to see how this would be added to AH, but I like the idea, would be fun just to kinda patrol looking for sneakies trying to push through the airspace trying to save some time. +1

Perhaps make it that if you landed/ditched in the neutral territory/country, you get your earned points, but not the bonus for a successful landing...idk just a thought

[davidwales]

total 109s swiss airforce were 88 

[Ack-Ack]

Actually both sides are right in this dispute ... INITIALLY the Swiss were VERY hostile to allied incursions, they DID threaten to attack warplanes that intruded on Swiss territory ... Downed Allied Pilots were treated humanely, but were strongly guarded. The Germans demanded that ALLIED pilots be turned over to Germany.  I don't think the Swiss ever DID that, but there were factions in the government that wanted to. GERMAN PILOTS were returned almost immediately, some of them were then SHOT as deserters .... UNTIL ... The allies invaded and it became apparent they would win the war ... AT THAT POINT ... allied airmen became Honered GUESTS, injured personnel were turned over to the British consulate and returned home. The Swiss started making noise about how many allied personnel they had RESCUED and PROTECTED from those Nasty Germans.

The Swiss did not "strongly guard" Allied internees.  Allied internees were on "parole" and could move around quite freely as long as they checked in each night, nor did the Swiss automatically return German internees.

this is the story of my fiance's uncle and his internment and escape from Switzerland.

Charles Cassidy 303rd Bomb Group (Hells Angels) 360th Bmb. Sqdn. Part 2

Charles Cassidy 303rd Bomb Group (Hells Angels) 360th Bmb. Sqdn. Part 3

ack-ack

[EVZ]

The Swiss did not "strongly guard" Allied internees.  Allied internees were on "parole" and could move around quite freely as long as they checked in each night, nor did the Swiss automatically return German internees. this is the story of my fiance's uncle and his internment and escape from Switzerland.Charles Cassidy 303rd Bomb Group (Hells Angels) 360th Bmb. Sqdn. Part 2

Very interesting story and I don't doubt it ... But this was July of 44 ... The Invasion was on and the Swiss government could see the writting on the wall ... I think you'll find a little different story told by internees who wandered into Switzerland During the Blitzkreig across France and Belgium. And from Civilian Refugees who were turned away at the border. Several instances of German "Deserters" being returned and shot have been documented. Look em up ...

Not trying to say the Swiss were all BAD GUYS, just keeping the facts straight. There were ALSO swiss sources that copied and provided German Diplomatic Passes and Personal Documentation employed by the Vatican to hide escaped POWs from the Gestapho.

[wil3ur]

...and they took and hid all the money, secretly replacing stolen gold with delicious gold wrapped chocolates.  That's why their banks are in the Alps... if it gets too warm and the chocolate melts, the gig is up!   

[EVZ]

...and they took and hid all the money, secretly replacing stolen gold with delicious gold wrapped chocolates.  That's why their banks are in the Alps... if it gets too warm and the chocolate melts, the gig is up! 

You don't know the same girls I know ... Good Choclate is worth MORE than gold.

[Reaper90]

I've read the same story about the Swiss 109's shooting down Bf110's, I'll scan and post the story tonight.

For those who have never read of the Swiss bf109s, here's an interesting chapter out of "Messerschmitt Bf109 AT WAR" by Armand van Ishoven...











Pg 90 on the bottom slide details the combat between the Germans and the Swiss, I have circled that section.

if the text is a little small, zoom in using the magnifying glass on the lower right hand corner of your browser window...

[EVZ]

For those who have never read of the Swiss bf109s, here's an interesting chapter out of "Messerschmitt Bf109 AT WAR" by Armand van Ishoven...

Thank You ... I'd heard about the german protests regarding Swiss Aircraft interfering with operations (warning shots) and about the swiss taking disciplinary action against their own pilots. I don't recall any reference to actual combat ... I stand corrected.

[icepac]

Reaper90-1

rest of thread-0

[Ripintide]

Neutral airfields GREAT now we can bail out of our planes if we run out of ammo and beat each other to death