Looking for a particular diagram

[PFactorDave]

Does anyone have an image file of the diagram that illustrates how a flat turn and vertical turn compare?  I'm trying to help someone out a little and I think the diaga\ram would help him to understand what I am trying to tell him better.  Any other diagrams that illustrate turn rates, yo-yo's, and anything else that a new guy might find helpful would be appreciated.

[FLS]

Could you be more specific about what you are trying to teach him?  A flat turn loses speed and maintains altitude. A vertical turn gains altitude and loses speed or loses altitude and gains speed. I doubt you need a picture of that so I'm wondering what you're asking for?

Keep in mind that you want to assess/teach solo maneuvering before you teach 1v1. Most new guys will benefit from training but make sure you start from the beginning and don't skip the basics or else everything that follows will be difficult.

[PFactorDave]

.  oops  double post

[PFactorDave]

I was thinking of the egg shape diagram that shows the flight path around the circumference of the turn (flat) as compared to the over the top (vertical)...  I'm sorry if I'm not being clear enough...  I've seen the drawing somewhere...  Maybe in Shaw's book...  I'll have to look there later.

He will only get the basics from me, I have already told him that he should seek out a trainer.

[FLS]

The only egg diagram I'm familiar with shows the effect of gravity on wing loading and speed on radius. You may be thinking of the reduced radius you can get after slowing down from climbing compared to the circle drawn by a sustained rate flat turn.  You can illustrate that with AH film by turning trails on and taking a couple of screenshots. That could look like the top half of an egg. If you teach this as a high yoyo you might make sure he understands the basics of turning, i.e. speed, G load and drag,  before you teach ACM.

[Oldman731]

Does anyone have an image file of the diagram that illustrates how a flat turn and vertical turn compare?  I'm trying to help someone out a little and I think the diaga\ram would help him to understand what I am trying to tell him better.  Any other diagrams that illustrate turn rates, yo-yo's, and anything else that a new guy might find helpful would be appreciated.

Puma44 and his sidekick Jappa were speaking of what you're talking about, I think, in this thread: 

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,311396.45.html

See the last post, by Jappa, for the diagram.

- oldman

[Butcher]

I was thinking of the egg shape diagram that shows the flight path around the circumference of the turn (flat) as compared to the over the top (vertical)...  I'm sorry if I'm not being clear enough...  I've seen the drawing somewhere...  Maybe in Shaw's book...  I'll have to look there later.

He will only get the basics from me, I have already told him that he should seek out a trainer.

The Jet in black is pulling a basic Flat Turn.


Here's a copy of the immelmann turn.



This Diagram is basically a Spiral climb designed to be used by an aircraft with a higher climb rate and engine power over its attacker.

[FLS]

Thanks Oldman I forgot about that thread.

This egg shows gravity's effect on load factor.  I see players lose position in a rolling scissors when they ignore or lose track of the gravity vector and just maneuver in relation to the bandit.

[Mace2004]

This has always been a good graphic that shows how a loop differs from what most people think.