Spitfire mk XIV

[Midway]

Pretty much all of those reports in the style of plane X versus Y are useless.

Example:
"18. The turning circles of both aircraft are identical."
But then they also say the 14 turns worse to the left. So, does that mean that the spit 9 also turns that much worse to the left? They probably played "follow the leader" and eased into a tight sustained turn with some significant speed - nothing like a sudden max-rate turn like we do in the game or fighting the stall at 90 mph and full throttle.
If anything, the other planes are underdone. As Badboy said, calculating the torque is relatively simple. However, I feel that the way it is applied to the FM is forgiving in some way. I mean, in most normal flight conditions it is fine, but in more extreme conditions, when these effects are important perhaps not. There is absolutely no problem stalling a plane, nose high to near 0 air speed while at full throttle and remain in full control. What exactly counters the torque? the ailerons? with almost no airflow at the wingtips? In some planes it was said that the throttle had to be advanced gradually on the ground to prevent ground loop before there was enough regular airflow on the rudder to counter it. Very few planes develop strong yaw at low speeds and full throttle.

HT once mentioned (I think when AH2 was in beta) that they model the prop wash and how it interacts with the wing-roots. The effect is supposed to counter the torque by increasing the lift on the wing that is being "pushed down" due to prop torque. Perhaps this effect is exaggerated in most FMs (but is modeled weaker in the 14?). Perhaps it needs to be dependent on the flight conditions. Perhaps it is something else entirely. I really don't know. HTC is doing a great job with the FMs, really the best of any flight sim, but modeling all the effects at the extremes of the envelope is far from trivial.

Well, I still think the Spit14 is very unwieldy at lower speeds... and maybe you're right, the other aeroplanes need to be more unwieldy to match reality... I have no idea.

I do know there is a big difference between the Spit14 and the Spit8 and Spit9 at slow speeds.  Moving the elevators a little with all that torque makes me feel like I'm bronco busting until I stall upside down and slowly drift to the ground to my doom.

The violent snap rolls seem very unrealistic and/or not survivable or at least should knock your head unconscious if it were RL.

[bustr]

PssssssssssssssT.....Bozon,

Port = Left
Starboard = Right

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TACTICAL COMPARISON WITH SPITFIRE IX

Turning Circle
18. The turning circles of both aircraft are identical. The Spitfire XIV appears to turn slightly better to port than it does to starboard. The warning of an approaching high speed stall is less pronounced in the case of the Spitfire Mk XIV.
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In the game I've noticed it does turn better to the port. Can anyone explain this phenomenon while it is a right hand engine and should favor right turns like the Typhoon and Tempest?

Since our XIV has the E wing, does that mean it has the Griffon 65 engine 18lb boost? Or do we have an early Griffon 61 18lb boost upgraded to an E wing? I thought the E wing XIV were all shipped with Griffon 65 as the combat standard. The XIV from Midway's link has the C wing and Griffon 65 18lb boost. I thought before Hitech updated our XIV it was a C wing and Griffon 61 which was the earliest release.

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As for stall and spin recovery.
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Manoeuvrablility- The elevator control of the Spitfire XIV was found to be much heavier than that of the Spitfire VIII, unpleasantlly so, and the other controls felt to be slightly heavier than on previous Spitfire Mks. In spite of heavier controls the Spitfire XIV is more manoeuvrable than the Spitfire VIII in turns at all heights. Spins were carried out in the Spitfire XIV at 25,000 feet. The aircraft did not spin voluntarily but had to be put into and held in the spin. Instead of spinning in the normal nose down attitude, the nose of the aircraft oscillated from an almost vertical position downwards to a position with the nose well above the horizon, so that the aircraft was tail down. It spent most of its time in this flat position from which, after four turns, recovery was fast by the normal method or slower if the controls were released. It never appears to become uncontrollable.
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At MA furball alts once stalled, this thing is a death trap waiting for the four revolutions to complete. I have experienced this exact scenario above 15k though, and it does recover after the four revolutions as described if uncontrollable means slow gentle turning rotations.

As for better turn ability than the VIII. Not until you burn the wing tanks off. And even then in the game when you get right up on the edge in your maneuvering so it performs better than the VIII. Suddenly you are on your back spinning down to your death. This is not a user friendly ride. Or a ride for players with spikey joysticks if you plan to ride the edge of the envelope with it.

So far the best handling of an XIV I've seen in the game, was Agent360 flying it to muppet signature move standards for the K4 and not like a spitfire. Eventually the 18lb boost WEP not being equal to the K4 at SL to 5k, his over shoot popups got him nailed. Since we were furballing next to his airfield, I'm assuming being a long time muppet, he was experienced enough to bring a low fuel load to a furball.

Wonder which K4 and which XIV are charted in that climb chart I linked from spitfire performance??

[Bruv119]

So far the best handling of an XIV I've seen in the game, was Agent360 flying it to muppet signature move standards for the K4 and not like a spitfire. Eventually the 18lb boost WEP not being equal to the K4 at SL to 5k, his over shoot popups got him nailed. Since we were furballing next to his airfield, I'm assuming being a long time muppet, he was experienced enough to bring a low fuel load to a furball.

I'd be shocked to hear that agent qualifies as the best spit 14 fight you've ever had.   He is well known for his one trick K4 manoeuvre but I have never seen him in a Spit!

[bozon]

PssssssssssssssT.....Bozon,

Port = Left
Starboard = Right

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Yes, but aren't these british left and right?

[Gixer]

The violent snap rolls seem very unrealistic and/or not survivable or at least should knock your head unconscious if it were RL.

That pretty much sums up all the spits especially the Spit16, you can watch people do crazy moves which in reality would likely kill the pilot.

Spit 8 and 16 are so good, why fly anything else if it wasn't for the boredom of easy kills in them.  Atleast the 14 adds a little more of a challange compared to the uber spits but not much.


<S>...-Gixer

[bustr]

I'd be shocked to hear that agent qualifies as the best spit 14 fight you've ever had.   He is well known for his one trick K4 manoeuvre but I have never seen him in a Spit!

I watched him and 4 of my countrymen from outside the fight. I had never seen an XIV flown like a K4 before and it was a good show. He was doing quite well for about 3 minutes until he hit the signature snap roll stall and lost his perch. Then had to try and run off the recovery for separation. The K4 on the deck is better at that as modeled in our game. Chances are the choice of maneuvering style confused his attackers enough to give him the advantage until the snap roll stall.

In truth, all of the XIV I've flown against since they were made free, I was in a spit8 and killed them or they ran away. My deaths so far from XIV have been by being picked while busy fighting. I spend time watching how others fail with the XIV to build a mental library about the XIV if I'm not flying it. The majority of failures are due to flying the XIV into furballs like it was an VIII or XVI and hitting the snap roll stall. You cannot mistake that signature failure when you see it. The more successful ones I've observed fly it like a P51B or K4. I suspect we are still in the general learning period while the talent pool learns the XIV's idiosyncrasies'.

The whole 109 community didn't become K4 gods over night way back when Hitech first released the G14, K4, spit16, and spit8 on the same day. But, it was obvious after a few encounters that day the K4's WEP was going to be a problem.

[Babalonian]

I'd be shocked to hear that agent qualifies as the best spit 14 fight you've ever had.   He is well known for his one trick K4 manoeuvre but I have never seen him in a Spit!

Anyone can fly a Spit 14, but only real men can tame it.

[BaldEagl]

Spit 8 and 16 are so good, why fly anything else

Because the IX is better than the VIII.  Maybe not statistically but it's a better fighter.