A2A maneuvers

[Chosen]

Is there a place where you can learn some of the air to air combat maneuvers? One with actually footage/videos versus just diagrams and lines drawn out?

Thanks
LTD Chosen
 

[morfiend]

 You could look through Utube for such videos but why not print out the graphs/flightpaths and then practice flying the pattern.  I understand some have difficulties converting a 2 d figure into 3D but in reality there are only so many maneuvers that you need to learn.

  The basics I would teach would be a breakturn,immelman,splitEss,high yoyo or pitchback and low yoyo or sliceback,add in a simple barrel roll and that covers the majority. Sure there are some others,chandel,cloverleaf and wingover to name afew but what a player needs to learn is to do the moves without thinking,they need to become instinctive and that only comes from practice.

  Knowing all the different air combat maneuvers does you no good if you have to think about what to do next,it's the choreography or putting the moves together that makes the difference. This will only happen when you can instinctively move from 1 ACM to another.

  I think of it like teaching boxing,I can show you how to throw a hook,uppercut or a jab but if you have to think about which punch to use and when,you'll quickly find yourself on the mat wondering what just happened!

  Hope that helps and if I can be of any help look me up in the TA.



   

[Arlo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_fighter_maneuvers

http://navyflightmanuals.tpub.com/P-821/index.htm

[gyrene81]

here ya go... http://www.youtube.com/user/Requiem10NS?feature=watch  it's all done in rise of flight but, the maneuvers are the same.

[Vudu15]

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL54E5CE4C59347B00

[Kingpin]

here ya go... http://www.youtube.com/user/Requiem10NS?feature=watch  it's all done in rise of flight but, the maneuvers are the same.

The Requiem videos Gyrene linked to are the best.  I have been recommending them for years to all my squadmates and others who are learning BFM, ACM and wingman tactics!  

Yes they are done in WWI aircraft, but the concepts are the same.  They are well thought-out, scripted and detailed videos of each flight maneuver.  They will give you the most information in the shortest amount of time.  They should be the model for any instructional videos created for AH.  What they do lack is "trails".  If a set of videos this well thought out and articulated was done in AH with trails on, it would be outstanding.

A few tips on viewing them: I felt the dark icons on some of the videos were a bit hard to see, so turn up the resolution and watch them full screen if you can.  I suggest watching each video a couple times (or more) until you can really see the flight paths.

In fact, I made of list of each topic (which I posted some time ago on a squad forum), so I'll post here if I can find it.

<S>
Ryno

I found the list I organized (below).  Hopefully all the links are still current.  Enjoy!

BASIC FLIGHT MANEUVERS:
 
CHANDELLE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0H2-LakBrE&feature=related
 
SPLIT-S (Includes SNAP ROLL to SPLIT-S):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0H2-LakBrE&feature=related
 
SNAP ROLL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2R8a-dzYhk
 
CUBAN 8:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIHB8dKcO88&feature=related
 
PITCHBACK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Groc6jWDJyQ&feature=related
 
HIGH YO-YO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRBFSxGV0Jc&feature=related
 
BARREL ROLL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8vBp97auu0&feature=related
 
HAMMERHEAD TURN (Immelmann in WWI Context):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRl6Bd8r1GE&feature=related
 
AIR COMBAT MANEUVERS:
 
FLAT SCISSORS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHIOixiJ33s&feature=related
 
ROLLING SCISSORS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5FPr9issOQ&feature=related
 
BARREL ROLL ATTACK (LAG DISPLACEMENT ROLL):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guVMVY2C6mM
 
ENERGY FIGHTING (BOOM AND ZOOM):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhYaRX8plzU&feature=related
 
ENERGY FIGHTING (includes ROPE A DOPE):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQWyrOSB6uw&feature=related
 
 
WINGMAN COMBAT TACTICS:
 
ASPECTS (“HOT” “COLD” TERMINOLOGY)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBA0u6vMiNc&list=PL83EA870F2B613A5C&index=1&feature=plpp_video

FIGHTING WING (Close Formation, 1 Offensive)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc3doyLD_mw
 
DOUBLE ATTACK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b14A-p83Yx4&list=PL234EF2DFC3AA2D45&index=3&feature=plpp_video

LOOSE DEUCE (Free and Engaged Formation, 2 v. 1, Both Offensive)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsEC1KWom0M&feature=related

DEFENSIVE SPLIT (2v1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L0Db_57-gI&list=PL234EF2DFC3AA2D45&index=2&feature=plpp_video

2v2 ENGAGEMENT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DabDBg3wDSA&feature=autoplay&list=PL234EF2DFC3AA2D45&playnext=2

 DRAG AND BAG (2 v. 1, Co-Alt/Co-E Engagement):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYS3TJ5BWs8&feature=related

[gyrene81]

decent video on the thach weave... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzq3944Xo9M

[Arlo]

decent video on the thach weave... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzq3944Xo9M

VF-17 Briefing Room

 

[Redd]

Is there a place where you can learn some of the air to air combat maneuvers? One with actually footage/videos versus just diagrams and lines drawn out?

Thanks
LTD Chosen
 

Are you looking to learn them to kill other planes , or to do aerobatics , or just out of interest ?

If its to kill other planes you can forget most of the ones listed here they are largely irrelevant and focus on whats important - keep it simple


Read this

http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/acm-merge/acm-merge.htm


Some things I would do if I was starting out and wanted to learn how to kill other planes



Lead Turn    (the most important thing you can learn and master)

Scissors

Yoyo

Choose one plane and learn it backwards - know its strengths and weaknesses against every other plane

Master the merge    (lot of fights are won or lost at the first merge)

Learn to angles fight , then to E-fight.       (E-fighting is not BnZ)

Fight a buddy that's either the same as you or better than you and practice with him  (preferably he's better)

Never take a shot on the merge   (if you do you just lost the angles)

Start thinking about where your enemy is going to be , not where he is now

Learn one really good defensive reversal or move against an enemy with more E and practice it over and over , you'll need it (there is always someone with more E)

Learn to love your throttle (you can have too little speed , and too much speed)

If in doubt go up   (use the vertical )


I guess I'm thinking that BFM is way more important than ACM if the the job is to kill other planes. A lot of those fancy ACM moves are for sight-seeing

[Latrobe]

Really good tips Redd, but the last one "if in doubt go up", that would only apply in certain situations wouldn't it? If you've been turning doing high G maneuvers during the fight then you might not have the E to go vertical, or you might be in a plane that simply won't out climb your opponents (such as a P-47 vs P-38 matchup).


I would have worded your tip as "If in doubt (or trouble) use your biggest plane performance advantage." If you're flying the P-47 against the P-38, use your superior dive ability. If you're the P-38 against the P-47, use your superior climbing advantage.

[Redd]

Really good tips Redd, but the last one "if in doubt go up", that would only apply in certain situations wouldn't it? If you've been turning doing high G maneuvers during the fight then you might not have the E to go vertical, or you might be in a plane that simply won't out climb your opponents (such as a P-47 vs P-38 matchup).


I would have worded your tip as "If in doubt (or trouble) use your biggest plane performance advantage." If you're flying the P-47 against the P-38, use your superior dive ability. If you're the P-38 against the P-47, use your superior climbing advantage.

I'm probably oversimplifying I guess what I meant is given the choice is available (which sometimes its not) I'd always prefer to retain E rather than blow E. For example as a guns defensive maneuver I'd always prefer to use some sort of barrel roll defensive or reversal than a low break turn or split S (which I really dont like at all) .

If the choice is between a flat turn and some sort of oblique immelman  i'd always prefer the immelman . If you immelman merge and your enemy also immelmans and you think maybe you can squeeze in another one and perhaps he can't - then fk yeah  - if in doubt go up  


Of course plane vs plane considerations will always drive those choices

[morfiend]

 Morf's ABC's of combat........ Always Be Climbing!






     

[Badboy]

Some things I would do if I was starting out and wanted to learn how to kill other planes

Some very good advice there Redd!!

Badboy

[Yankee67]

I think of it like teaching boxing,I can show you how to throw a hook,uppercut or a jab but if you have to think about which punch to use and when,you'll quickly find yourself on the mat wondering what just happened!

Morfiend is right.

"Everybody got a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson