Author Topic: biggest changes to AH FM/gunnery modeling since beta opinions...  (Read 2507 times)

Offline Gman

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Re: biggest changes to AH FM/gunnery modeling since beta opinions...
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2013, 07:29:09 AM »
Even if they did fly in the real a/c, it would take hundreds of hours in order to have enough info and "feel" to be able to make judgements.  I know when I flew in a P51, it was only 1.5 hours flight time, and I was so bamboozled over everything going on that even really trying to pay attention to airspeeds and such things, there was no hope of making accurate comparisons from that little amount of time.  I would say that the game makes things very easy for us virtual pilots compared to the real thing - just pushing the throttle on your hotas to go faster, pulling on the stick to turn tighter, etc....there is SO much more to do in the real thing.  That, and we constantly push our planes to the limit in AH, something you simply couldn't do in real life, at least, not for as long as we do it here.  That's why I find performance complaints sort of pointless.

Offline bozon

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Re: biggest changes to AH FM/gunnery modeling since beta opinions...
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2013, 07:56:39 AM »
So what is wrong if it makes it good in AH (better than Yak-7 and P-39s), but did not make it good enough in real life?
The main reason is that we are not fighting like they did in real life. The only reason that planes like the Brewster, KI43 etc. can even get into combat with something like a P-51 or a 190D9 is because we fly cartoon planes as if they were cartoon planes. The 1940-41 hurricanes did not fly alongside an La-7 that caught a 190, forces it into a low alt turning fight and allowed the Hurricane to jump in with its 4 hispanos to finish the job. Or alternatively, some 109K4 pilot feels cocky enough to try and beat a Hurri2C in its own game - that will never happen if the 109K4 pilot was really risking his life. If he did, at the first sign of trouble he'll leave the Hurri in a hurry.

Less significant reasons include gunnery and spin/stalls. Gunnery was much more difficult in real life. 400 yards shots were considered long range. 800 yards shots on a fighter were virtually unheard of. Firing at high G was likely to get your guns jammed. Spins and deep stalls were feared. Very few pilots would attempt to hang on the prop, WEP engaged, firing at a plane 600 yards straight up until their speed drops to 0 and they fall tail-forward. AH backward-flying model seem to be quite forgiving (except a handful of planes) and most planes will simply drop the nose and continue flying without any control input (like reducing the throttle to less than max..).

Finally, no matter how hard you pull on your stick, YOU suffer 1G acceleration. Heck, I pull 6G without spilling the bear in my other hand. This gives a big advantage to planes whose only strength requires them to pull lots of G. Pulling 6G repeatedly with out a G suite is exhausting and if you do that while looking backwards you'll probably be looking at your butt for the next two weeks. I pulled 6+G with a G-suit - you are not incapacitated, but every little action becomes difficult and clumsy - like say, keeping your head straight... Pulling such a turn into a snap shot while still in high G was probably some feat that I doubt happened very often, unlike with the Hurri2C in a computer game. Unfortunately HTC decided not to apply G forces on us players.

4 hispanos on an obsolete plane did not do so well in real life. You need to be able to bring your guns into a firing position, otherwise their type and number does not matter.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: biggest changes to AH FM/gunnery modeling since beta opinions...
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2013, 08:32:04 AM »
since you asked......

spins
My understanding is that departure from normal flight is the hardest thing to model in a flight simulator.  I doubt HTC intentionally dumbed it down.
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Offline REDDEYE

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Re: biggest changes to AH FM/gunnery modeling since beta opinions...
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2013, 09:39:23 AM »
All great points Gents... Truth is... Reality is certainly different than Virtual... and Egos tend to be an even more inflated reality in the virtual world.  :devil

Several of these planes have better dive capibilities and 'e' retention than they probably should have in the game... Brewsters and Hurricanes come to mind... but my experience is limited to the game and what I've read (to include many of these very knowledgeable Forum posts). I don't know that these planes had a better dive potential than the A6Ms. At the same time, 190s do seem to lose 'e' faster than I would postulate. There are so many factors to consider in each virtual plane... keep up the great work HT! The likes and loves in this game certainly out weigh any of my grievance. Thanks for keeping the evolution of the game in motion.

  :airplane:-----Cheers from REDDEYE

Offline caldera

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Re: biggest changes to AH FM/gunnery modeling since beta opinions...
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2013, 11:14:05 AM »
The B-239's E retention isn't as big of a puzzlement as it's fire resistance, despite the lack of self-sealing fuel tanks. 
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Offline -error

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Re: biggest changes to AH FM/gunnery modeling since beta opinions...
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2013, 12:21:33 PM »
We have never intentionally diverged any flight models from reality.

Not even reduce rollrate to minimize warping? Like it was in WarBirds.
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: biggest changes to AH FM/gunnery modeling since beta opinions...
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2013, 12:34:38 PM »
Not even reduce rollrate to minimize warping? Like it was in WarBirds.

I hardly ever see warping.  what do you mean by this?



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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: biggest changes to AH FM/gunnery modeling since beta opinions...
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2013, 12:45:52 PM »
I hardly ever see warping.  what do you mean by this?



semp

In the old days due to poor connections they had smoothing code and some say adjusted flight models. So when you were in trouble you could yank and flip your plane about and with out the code it looked like your plane was doing mini warps and was very hard to hit because the game couldn't keep up with your moves.

I don't think that is a problem now with the high speed internet we have today. Nor the way why HTC runs their game.

Offline -aper-

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Re: biggest changes to AH FM/gunnery modeling since beta opinions...
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2013, 05:14:46 PM »
4 hispanos on an obsolete plane did not do so well in real life. You need to be able to bring your guns into a firing position, otherwise their type and number does not matter.

You are right about real life. But we are talking about how the plane is modeled here in AH. If it was properly modeled with poor diving speed, stall/spin without warning and spin recovery for at least 5-6 seconds and 670m of alt required  it would drop down the efficiency of the plane to much more reasonable value - much closer to what it was in real life.

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: biggest changes to AH FM/gunnery modeling since beta opinions...
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2013, 02:48:34 AM »
You are right about real life. But we are talking about how the plane is modeled here in AH. If it was properly modeled with poor diving speed, stall/spin without warning and spin recovery for at least 5-6 seconds and 670m of alt required  it would drop down the efficiency of the plane to much more reasonable value - much closer to what it was in real life.

Not to mention that hispanos were notorious for jamming when fired under G-load so that would make the situation even worse for the hurri.
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