American Apaches getting big upgrades

[bozon]

U.S. Apaches did very well in Iraq.

During the war, not so much. They were found to be very vulnerable especially during the day. Against insurgents at night they were better because nothing could really threaten them. They simply cannot linger in a treat zone - they have to receive the mission at a rear holding area, then fly it, attack, and get the hell out. Many of the missions that they did in the past, these days a drone can do just as good and possibly better.

[DaveBB]

They did poorly on one mission.  No Apaches were lost on that long range strike, but many were severely damaged.

[Rich46yo]

They did poorly on one mission.  No Apaches were lost on that long range strike, but many were severely damaged.

Actually ALL of them were heavily damaged in that one mission and one or two were lost. I forget.

Overall I'd rate we did not get our moneys worth with this system. They are the last thing I'd want to be in in any populated area, other then a big troop carrying helicopter. To call the Apache a "flying tank" is absurd.

Now were dumping the A10s and going to use the worlds most expensive helicopter as a "scout"? brilliant!

[GScholz]

You would have gotten your money's worth had the war it was designed to fight materialized. Fortunately it didn't. It's still an awesome killing-machine in a set piece battle, but it is not well suited for "police actions" and COIN operations.

[wpeters]

You would have gotten your money's worth had the war it was designed to fight materialized. Fortunately it didn't. It's still an awesome killing-machine in a set piece battle, but it is not well suited for "police actions" and COIN operations.

We'll it still can track a blood trail. I mean you got to admitt you don't want on the receiving end of it

[Ack-Ack]

They did poorly on one mission.  No Apaches were lost on that long range strike, but many were severely damaged.

One Apache was lost in that attack on Republican troops and the crew captured.

ack-ack

[Rich46yo]

You would have gotten your money's worth had the war it was designed to fight materialized. Fortunately it didn't. It's still an awesome killing-machine in a set piece battle, but it is not well suited for "police actions" and COIN operations.

Well it didnt. The Cold War ended, the charge thru the Fulda never happened. Even if it had the air over northern Europe would have been contested for many days leaving the Apache to deal with the murderous Soviet AA systems. Those jokers werent playing with their huge mechanized armies.

I think we both over estimated the impact of attack helicopters in modern combined arms conflicts. For sure we never saw this low intensity thing coming.

The future for rotary is drones. There are only so many Saddams stupid enough to park tanks out in the desert and tell them to start up every hour to leave a nice heat sig.

But even the Iraqis eventually improvised.

[GScholz]

Well, the future of anything flying in a combat role is drones. Helicopters became the only CAS platform available to the US Army since the USAF won't let then have anything fixed wing. Interservice rivalry in your armed forces is a constant source of ineffective compromises and budgetary waste. The army really wanted the A-10. Well, the Air Force couldn't have that...

[TOMCAT21]

CAS or Close Air Support is fixed wing aircraft. CCA or Close Combat Attack is Rotary-wing aircraft unless your the USMC which calls everything CAS. The A-10 has long been a sore spot between the US Army and the US Air Force. The ironic thing is generallyAir Force JTACs control the CAS unless you are an JFO or Joint Fires Observer but even then a JTAC has to bless off on its use. We often used APaches  ( when we got them ) for the route recon or Counter-IED since enemy armor was practically non-existent.  Many a Taliban met their maker due to an Apache especially while attempting to plant a IED or ambush a patrol. If it is used right, the Apache is no different then any other platform or weapon system and it serves its purpose.