After the Merge

[wpeters]

I have been haveing some trouble after the merge.  I like to make a long sweeping climb to the left.  I keep finding that some how the opponet will dive and come up under me butcher me.. What am I doing wrong.  Also how do you pull that type of a merge.

[Bruv119]

in a strict duel after the first merge should come a second merge.  From what you've said without film I'd say your just climbing after the first pass and ignoring your opponent hoping for the best.   

In same planes you won't have enough E depending on how hard you pulled into your climb to stay out of the reach of his guns.   You need to pull just as tight as your opponent so that you are face to face again for a second merge.   If he dives to get underneath you, he is gaining speed to then yank it around and be in this underneath and behind you position that you speak of.   

My advice would be to turn more and face him (nose to nose) or if there is room for you to turn at the top of your spiral climb and hope that he stalls before he can get a good enough shot to kill you. 

[Randy1]

I have been haveing some trouble after the merge.  I like to make a long sweeping climb to the left.  I keep finding that some how the opponet will dive and come up under me butcher me.. What am I doing wrong.  Also how do you pull that type of a merge.

What plane do you use most when this problem occurs?  Just curious.

[SPKmes]

Sounds like they could be part way through their turn on the merge...(which is what you want)... your opponent is watching what you do...how you enter/leave the merge ..... if they are slightly nose down and turning to the right after noticing your lazy climb to the left (lazy is what I call it...do it myself sometimes to see how the red guy is going to play it) which gives them a slight speed advantage and as long as they are not too aggressive will easily follow you ....they have the chance to use less climb than you and keep more speed.....as they close you will be higher but they have plenty of E to climb up under you...this is especially true for the good climbers......109's spit 8,16, F4u's

reading the merge is a skill in itself.....it takes time and a lot of bumps and bruises...The top guys in game can read your flight path before you even know what path you will take....in some cases they apply the pressure to make you fly that way....

As bruv said....you need to get your nose around....sure do the slow climb to the left but watch how you opponent is setting up for the second....as soon as you see the con getting his nose around you need to get yours around too....re merge and reset

I hope that makes sense.....I can't explain things very well...I know what I am trying to say but I don't have all the technical terms or mentality to put it to words

[FLS]

I have been haveing some trouble after the merge.  I like to make a long sweeping climb to the left.  I keep finding that some how the opponet will dive and come up under me butcher me.. What am I doing wrong.  Also how do you pull that type of a merge.

You are creating turning room without using it to help yourself. You need to press the bandit. Visualize their turn circle and fly into it.

[Randy1]

Recently I have tried to be a better good judge of when I have lost the first merge and recognize it sooner.  That is my lead turn started after the red's lead turn.  The sooner I know that the better I can reset.

[Latrobe]

The merge depends greatly on the plane match up and current state of both planes (alt, E, positioning). A long sweeping left climbing turn sounds like you are going into a lag turn against your opponent. This will work great if you have more speed or have a better climbing aircraft, but if your opponent has the speed advantage or a better climbing plane then he can come around his turn and easily give chase. There's also the possibility that you aren't climbing steep enough and not getting a distinct altitude advantage. If you're climbing turn is more flat than vertical then even a P-40 can come around their turn and get on the tail of a 109.

There are many many different things you can do in 1 given merge in the same plane match up and situation. You can use lag turns to conserve speed, lead turns to get into your turn before your opponent gets into his, fly aggressively with high G turns to try and gain your opponents 6 quickly, fly passively and try to fool your opponent into making a mistake, etc etc. The key though is to know when your initial plan is going wrong and you need to change what you're doing. If you're going into a sweeping left climbing turn and you see your opponent come around his turn and catching you in your climb, then you need to stop doing plan A and start doing plan B.

[wpeters]

Last little while it is 47 m

[Randy1]

Last little while it is 47 m

The M is one of my favorites.  To be successful against planes like a K or 16 you must win the first merge or recognize early that you are not going to win the first merge.  The super planes have the advantage of resetting quickly so even if you win the merge your odds go up on winning the second merge.  As Delrium told me in a P-38 training session when talking about Spits, win the first merge and don't miss because you might not get a second chance.  Good advice.

If you see them made their lead turn before you, blow through the merge and try to reset.  You can't fix a lost merge unless you have the plane or the E to do so.

[Skyyr]

I have been haveing some trouble after the merge.  I like to make a long sweeping climb to the left.

And that's your problem.

You shouldn't have moves you do because you "like" them; you should perform maneuvers that either

1) make it impossible for your opponent to follow through without putting themselves at a disadvantage
2) neutralize any advantages your opponent might possess, allowing for a neutral secondary or even tertiary merge, or
3) respond directly and appropriately to your opponent's maneuvering in a way that his advantage is minimized, if the above two options are not possible.

Those are the only options, in that order, you should be pursuing during and after the merge.

In practice, it's not complex. Following the flow above might be as simple as performing a maximum-rate Immelman... or maybe a flat-turn. The point is that you never, ever just do a maneuver "because I like it," or "because I've had good success with it," or for any other personally-subjective reason. The only maneuvers you should be performing are those that apply specifically to your situation.

A phrase I use a lot in pilot training applies here: If you can't explain why you're doing the maneuver, then you shouldn't be doing it.

The point is that is you can't explain why you're doing the maneuver (even if it is the right maneuver to perform), then you don't fundamentally grasp what's going on around you. You need to fully understand the maneuvers, why they're used, why they're effective, and when to use them in order to apply them successfully. Otherwise, you're simply flying by the seat of your pants.

[Puma44]

I have been haveing some trouble after the merge.  I like to make a long sweeping climb to the left.  I keep finding that some how the opponet will dive and come up under me butcher me.. What am I doing wrong.  Also how do you pull that type of a merge.

Learn the fundamentals of BFM and how to apply them with regard to the "energy egg" concept.  Then learn ACM.  With these skills in your bag of tricks, you'll have a better understanding of what to do and why when presented with different moves from your opponent.  

Good points Skyyr brings up about not doing moves because you "like" them.  Understanding energy management and maintaing situational awareness is key to air combat.  If not, you'll be that "grape" that is constantly gathering several bogies looking for an easy kill.   

[Arlo]

http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/acm-merge/acm-merge.htm

(edit - this is better)

[FLS]

Arlo the first pic you posted gave good info even though the second illustration was odd. Many players don't know that nose to nose favors radius over turn rate.