Rome

[SysError]

Wow, I didn’t expect that!  Dude you just took this way too personal like.

Fair warning, there a number of topics that you probably do not want to pick a fight with me on: Ancient Roman architecture

One of my passions....... Appollodorus was a genius, a man far ahead of his day. I mean the man told Hadrian that his designs weren't good, and personally I think Hadrian was no slouch. Although I will admit he "borrowed" a bunch of his designs/ideas from the Greeks....the man was a greekophile...

What's you favorite structure?

The Pantheon, but not hands down.  I can explain later, I really have to get to office!

(I do not want to break Rule # 2, so I started afresh…)


When a question such as yours is asked, and one does not pick the Pantheon, then one had better be prepared to explain why.

The first time I walked up to the Pantheon it was a bit of a Ho Hum for me.  I was a cocky kid that thought I could master all of Roman topography, or at least the stuff that “mattered”, in a few weekends.  When I saw the front of the Pantheon I thought, “well, here is a nice example of a typical Roman Temple and I wonder what all fuss is about.”



"Pantheon panorama, Rome - 5" by Maros M r a z (Maros) - Own work. Licensed under CC BY 2.5 via Commons - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pantheon_panorama,_Rome_-_5.jpg#/media/File:Pantheon_panorama,_Rome_-_5.jpg

Nothing can prepare anyone for the immense shock and surprise that awaits you as you walk through the immense bronze doors of the Pantheon and into the rotunda.

After years of thought I have come to the opinion that what you are experiencing is not a result of the use of concrete, marble or brick – these are just the primitive ancillary logo blocks of their day – what you are experiencing is the architecting of pure inner space.

I have never been impacted in the same manner by any other structure I have seen or been in.

When you first walk up to the Pantheon and you look at the façade, what you are looking at is a very traditional Roman temple: a deep porch with freestanding Corinthian capitals on grey granite columns (40 feet tall), a single staircase and a pediment.  The only issue/item that you might spot is that it does not appear to be built on a high podium.  But it actually was, the ground around it has built up over the centuries.



"Rom, Pantheon bei Nacht" by Dnalor 01 - Own work. Licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0 via Commons –  https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rom,_Pantheon_bei_Nacht.jpg#/media/File:Rom,_Pantheon_bei_Nacht.jpg

And when you first go on to the porch you are initially conditioned by the three row deep 40 foot granite columns.  It is meant to make you feel immensely small.  Walk through the huge bronze doors and you cannot help feeling that you walking through a giant’s front door.  You are in a house of giants, a house of Gods.  You are a spec so insignificant that no attempt has been made to proportion the structure around you or your dimensions.  You might as well be an ant scurrying through.



"Ac.pantheon3". Licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0 via Commons - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ac.pantheon3.jpg#/media/File:Ac.pantheon3.jpg

Some describe the experience of walking into the rotunda and under the dome as an almost religious experience.  I am not sure if that expression completely captures it.  For me, someone has carved into space with elegant lego blocks and I am there, alone, safe and within a dilation of time absorbing the subtle interplay of the beam of light from the oculus onto the concrete coffers, the marble revetment and below. 



"Rome-Pantheon-Caissons" by I, Jean-Christophe BENOIST. Licensed under CC BY 2.5 via Commons - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rome-Pantheon-Caissons.jpg#/media/File:Rome-Pantheon-Caissons.jpg




"Roma Pantheon 001" by German Ramos - Own work. Licensed under Public Domain via Commons - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Roma_Pantheon_001.jpg#/media/File:Roma_Pantheon_001.jpg


“We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us.”
Winston Churchill


Using scale to impact subjects has, over the centuries, been accomplished by many.  At one extreme, think of Nazi architecture were the immense size and harsh lines are meant to convey to you that you are insignificant and that the state will crush you if it desires.  The same means, but for very different ends is used in churches (think of the Dome of St. Peter’s Basilica), or symbols of state power (think of the United States Capitol dome).  These other structures do not have the same effect on you that the Pantheon does.  I think that first they usually lack the conditioning preamble that the Pantheon’s facade and porch accomplishes.  And second other structures usually have a forced point of focus (think of an apse with an altar) that takes away from the dome, or too many focus points (again, think of the United States Capitol dome).

The crepuscular ray in the Pantheon is really the only “focusing” device in the structure.  The only thing we cannot touch.



"Beam in the dome of the Pantheon" by Владимир Шеляпин - Own work. Licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0 via Commons - eon.jpg#/media/File:Beam_in_the_dome_of_the_Panth eon.jpg" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Beam_in_the_dome_of_the_Panth eon.jpg#/media/File:Beam_in_the_dome_of_the_Panth eon.jpg

[SysError]

Apollodorus of Damascus and Hadrian, I confess, I couldn’t remember all the details.  I had to go look them up.  If the story that comes down to us is accurate, than I suppose that you are right in the sense that Apollodorus was right that the Temple of Venus and Roma needed to be on a high podium, but is that a reason to kill your critic?

As I was looking up the story, I was reminded of an unresolved inconsistency that I used to have about the whole story.  (I need to state right up front here that I am stretching way back in time and that the probability that I have now missed something important is very high.  So even though I could be stepping into it…onward we go!).

What I guess I do not get is that I am not sure that the story is consistent with what I expect from Apollodorus or Hadrian.

“On the accession of Hadrian, whom he had offended by ridiculing his performances as architect and artist, Apollodorus was banished and, shortly afterwards, being charged with imaginary crimes, put to death.[6]”

“Many since have taken Dio's anecdote at face value, but there is much in this story that does not add up and many scholars dismiss its historicity altogether.[7]”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollodorus_of_Damascus


Apollodorus, as Trajan’s architect, was legendary in blending tradition with forward thinking design.  Think of the Baths of Trajan.  Through the construction of space he melded bathing with social and intellectual life.  An important development in the design of baths going forward.  Think of the Markets of Trajan, a two tier covered market bazaar.  Just out of the box thinking.  And of course in his Forum where among other things he expanded the use of brick faced concrete.

So here is a guy who understands that you need to break with tradition in order to innovate.

You just do not think of that sort of person being overly critical on the matter of a podium.

And then we have Hadrian.  As you say a philhellene.  He was the most educated and most intellectual of the Roman emperors.  He was emperor of peace.  Unlike Trajan and other emperors he didn’t seek to establish his legitimacy through conquest.  And from what we think we know of his architectural preferences, he didn’t shy away from controversy.  He also picked up and expanded the use of Apollodorus’ brick faced concrete methods.  Would such a reflective man kill a critic?


On the issue of a book club, I saw your original suggestion on this way back when.  I thought about it for a good while.  The truth of it is that I am a slow and unreliable reader.  Sometimes I just zip (by my standards) through books.  Sometime, well sometimes, it just goes on and on.  I have a book that I have been reading now for 18 months!  I may have to go back and re-read parts of it because I am not too sure if I remember the main points from the beginning of the book.

I guess the last book I read from Ancient Rome was by Gregory Hays’ 2003 translation of Marcus Aurelius’ Meditations (Xmas present from wife two years ago).  The introduction is well worth the price of the book.  It is also a nice translation.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0679642609/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687722&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=048629823X&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0DD227TBZ0QSR05Z8KH7


I suppose we could try Pod Casts.  My reservation here is that I have noticed that I simply do not retain much of what I get exposed to.  Especially when compared to reading on the same subject.  I think that I was trained to learn from reading, not watching or listening. 

The best Pod Cast that I know of on Ancient Roman architecture is:

http://oyc.yale.edu/history-art/hsar-252

By Professor Diana E. E. Kleiner of Yale.


You can view it on Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd3MJPHaotQ&index=1&list=PLBCB3059E45654BCE

or download the audio or video or HTML text or even get it as an ebook. 

So we could try something, but be prepared for the slow poke that I can be.

BTW: Why the Pantheon but not hands down?  Simple, first it is like asking who is your favorite kid?  And then there is another issue that you really have to ask yourself, what would I think if all of Nero’s building had survived, or more stuff from Trajan?  In other words, am I limiting myself to only what I can see and touch?  I think that in all fairness I have to say that the answer is yes.

(I tried to get my wife involved in this.  I explained how the issue is developing and she looked at some of the posts on the BBS and said, “Hell no, and what are you doing on a site like that?”  It is a pity.  She really always has been a better historian then me.  Way before we were married, she took a class on the transition of Rome from the Republic to the Empire.  The lecturer was, as I recall, one of the founding members of the “We must abolish the A from all levels of education” sort of guy.  Anyway, my then girlfriend wrote a 20 page paper on the reign of Sulla and his impact on the remainder of the Republic and the Empire.  You guessed it, she got an A.  Smoked out a very good friend of mine who was in the same class.  Me?  I am sort of like; “Oh yea, the Empire, yea, I got it, after Augustus and all that.  Do you really think that I am that stupid?  BTW, who is this Octavius guy?  He keeps showing up all over the place!”).

So I’ll take your lead.  If you want to try something knowing what you now know, I am game.

[BuckShot]

Cool thread and pics! Thanks for sharing.

You've probably read them, but if not, you might like the "Pillars of the Earth" series of historical fiction books.

They have some very descriptive cathedral building techniques.

[SysError]

Cool thread and pics! Thanks for sharing.

You've probably read them, but if not, you might like the "Pillars of the Earth" series of historical fiction books.

They have some very descriptive cathedral building techniques.

No, I had not heard of the series or Follett.  I asked my wife if she had ever come across him (turns out she had) and she was impressed by him.  So on to my Christmas wish list it goes!

Thanks