Author Topic: Saxman's Skins  (Read 1885 times)

Offline Saxman

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Saxman's Skins
« on: July 08, 2017, 12:49:14 PM »
Seeing as I'm getting back into the game, I figured I ought to see about updating my skins to AHIII standards. Plus there's a few I'm not quite happy with, or otherwise need to be readdressed.

For one, I've recently discovered that Marine's Dream (VMF-222) had a shark mouth on her starboard side.





So yeah, I want to go back and add that on.

Also, I was curious about whether this skin would be allowed on a F4U-1:



The airframe was a F4U-2, but aside from the radome and elimination of one of the guns on the starboard wing, the two aircraft were identical.
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Offline Greebo

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Re: Saxman's Skins
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2017, 01:43:50 PM »
I have successfully submitted an F6F-5N night fighter in the past, so an F4U-2 should be OK.

Offline Saxman

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Re: Saxman's Skins
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2017, 01:51:58 PM »
Cool, I think there's something particularly neat about the black sides on the VF(N)-101 Hogs. Bleh, now I've just gotta get my templates redone. :-P
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Offline lyric1

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Re: Saxman's Skins
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2017, 01:59:09 PM »
Seeing as I'm getting back into the game, I figured I ought to see about updating my skins to AHIII standards. Plus there's a few I'm not quite happy with, or otherwise need to be readdressed.

For one, I've recently discovered that Marine's Dream (VMF-222) had a shark mouth on her starboard side.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

So yeah, I want to go back and add that on.

Also, I was curious about whether this skin would be allowed on a F4U-1:

(Image removed from quote.)

The airframe was a F4U-2, but aside from the radome and elimination of one of the guns on the starboard wing, the two aircraft were identical.

The shark mouth is a guess by an artist.
No known photo on that one plus it is not VMF-222 it is VMF-214.

http://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/usa/aircrafts-2-3/f4u-corsair/f4u-1-576-marines-dream-of-vmf-214-flown-by-1lt-ed-olander-after-it-crashed-at-torokina-bougainville-during-1943/

Offline Saxman

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Re: Saxman's Skins
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2017, 03:07:20 PM »
The shark mouth is a guess by an artist.
No known photo on that one plus it is not VMF-222 it is VMF-214.

http://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/usa/aircrafts-2-3/f4u-corsair/f4u-1-576-marines-dream-of-vmf-214-flown-by-1lt-ed-olander-after-it-crashed-at-torokina-bougainville-during-1943/

Research into the BuNo. indicates this craft was assigned to VMF-222. I know VMF-214 has been commonly cited, but that's incorrect.

There IS a photo of the starboard side out there indicating the shark mouth and text under the canopy ("THE IGNORMOUS"). The referenced image hasn't been posted independently online that I can find, but is cited as being in Aircraft Pictorial #7 (F4U Corsair Vol. 1) on page 27. As I understand it, the mouth is obscured or difficult to see, but the eye is clearly visible.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Saxman

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Re: Saxman's Skins
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2017, 03:19:29 PM »
Ha! Just came across this:



Apparently the panel with the nose art was salvaged after 02576 was wrecked and transferred to Ramblin' Wreck.

Photo of the actual bird IS online:



I may have to skin that bird once I get the F4U Birdcage template and Marine's Dream updated...
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 03:22:31 PM by Saxman »
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline lyric1

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Re: Saxman's Skins
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2017, 12:02:06 AM »


There IS a photo of the starboard side out there indicating the shark mouth and text under the canopy ("THE IGNORMOUS"). The referenced image hasn't been posted independently online that I can find, but is cited as being in Aircraft Pictorial #7 (F4U Corsair Vol. 1) on page 27. As I understand it, the mouth is obscured or difficult to see, but the eye is clearly visible.




Offline Saxman

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Re: Saxman's Skins
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2017, 06:36:41 AM »
As I said: the eye and text is clearly visible in that top picture, the angle is just obscuring the shark mouth. Also confirming that she was assigned to VMF-222 at the time the wreck occurred.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 06:38:12 AM by Saxman »
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Saxman

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Re: Saxman's Skins
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2017, 03:37:31 PM »
At any rate, there remains a lot of confusion about this machine:

1) I've always seen her specified as being blue gray over light gray. The book indicates that she had been repainted in tricolor, with the lower wing surfaces possibly left in blue gray. However the images here don't seem to support the use of tricolor, and certainly the nose art panel salvaged for Ramblin' Wreck suggests she still had blue gray (or else EXTREMELY faded) upper surfaces.



It's inconclusive from this image whether she's actually white underneath.



This one suggests that she could be white underneath, but it could also be the result of shadows.

Most recently, I've seen it suggested that at least parts of the wing uppers were touched up with the standard semi-gloss sea blue. The images here are inconclusive, as it's difficult to tell what's paint and what's mud (though it looks like the leading edge, and parts of the middle of the wings may be darker than the rest of the fuselage).

2) The demarcation line has numerous interpretations, as well. Historically, she's been depicted as blue gray over light-gray, with a very high demarcation line. This book attributes the same to an unusually high intermediate blue middle band. However I've ALSO seen where this unusual color pattern is described as the result of a large and very light exhaust stain.

3) Some profiles suggests this aircraft had a light gray stabilizer (on a blue-gray aircraft) which would be VERY unusual for a blue gray over light gray bird, as the stabilizer was usually done in the same blue gray as the uppers. Unfortunately it's pretty mangled in the existing photos, but some do suggest the stabilizer was significantly lighter than the rest of the uppers (which does support her having been repainted in tricolor).
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Saxman

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Re: Saxman's Skins
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2017, 03:13:45 PM »
Rare pic of Ignormous/Marine's Dream before her accident:



In this one I can definitely see justification for her having been a very faded tricolor and an unusually high demarcation line between the non-specular sea blue uppers and the intermediate blue verticals. An oddity of this photo is that she doesn't have the numbers on the front landing gear doors.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Owlblink

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Re: Saxman's Skins
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2017, 11:51:35 PM »
Rare pic of Ignormous/Marine's Dream before her accident:

(Image removed from quote.)

In this one I can definitely see justification for her having been a very faded tricolor and an unusually high demarcation line between the non-specular sea blue uppers and the intermediate blue verticals. An oddity of this photo is that she doesn't have the numbers on the front landing gear doors.

Try working a bit on both versions if you have the time, or at least on the details you have limited down the most.
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Offline Saxman

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Re: Saxman's Skins
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2017, 11:52:09 AM »
Try working a bit on both versions if you have the time, or at least on the details you have limited down the most.

I'm going to do her in tricolor. That last picture sells it for me; You can clearly see three different shades on the wing, especially the uppers being much darker than the underside.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Saxman

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Re: Saxman's Skins
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2017, 07:39:58 PM »
So I've been using the RGB values for the actual camouflage colors as my starting point, and one thing I noticed is that Insignia White (ANA 601) is surprisingly yellow in color:

http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=37880

Wanted to get some thoughts on this; Should it REALLY look like this, or has the definition of Insignia White changed at some point. I don't even remember my old model paints in the Federal Standard system being this yellow.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Devil 505

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Re: Saxman's Skins
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2017, 08:05:30 PM »
I've always used pure white as a base on my U.S. insignias. That said, there may be some trace yellow in the actual paint mix but I think yellow in the sample is overstated.

Also remember that in AH light colors - especially white - are extremely bleached in sunlight and you're going to want to darken any white you use with about 15% black. See how noticeable the yellow is after darkening.
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Offline Saxman

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Re: Saxman's Skins
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2017, 08:56:18 AM »
I can certainly tone the yellow down a bit. Thing it that sample is pretty consistent everywhere I've checked.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.