radio silence and Icons

[Vinkman]

Show me the rule that says "players still flying in the round, are not allowed to use range(purple) channel vox to "voice" that he/she is entering / engaging in a fight that 2 or more already going at it"

Show me the rule that says "players still flying in the round, are not allowed to use range(purple) channel vox to "voice" to the other(s) that he/she is already engaged fighting with that another player is fixing to join the dogfight/furball

Search through the complete "KOTH forum" and post links to even just 1 individual thread or post that says I violated the KOTH event rules.....

I do not narrate the action while I am still in the fight or up flying

And ever since the way HTC has changed the way the range/local/room channel works, I have refrained from posting text or talking once I have been sent to the Tower out of respect for those still up flying!

Before the range/local/room channel was changed, players and the CMs could talk in the tower about fighting that was still going on using the room(purple) vox.... Players and CMs would even "as you think of it" narrate kinda for those who couldn't or didn't use the CMeye mode from the tower!

Players that have already been downed/sent to the Tower have always been encouraged to help watch the different players and dogfights still going to help the KOTH CM's police the event! doing so by calling out any player violating a rule, which one can use the KOTH event main vox 101 channel or the other in this case

Hope this helps

TC

10) Chat rule
  * Text chat is only allowed on squad and range (Only in tower)Text.  No Chatting on Vox or text on 101 and country chn.
  * <S> and good fight is still allowed on country channel and chn 101.
  * No check 6’s are allowed at ALL Times!

The spirit of the rule is that you are not allowed to coordinate or assist other players in the fight. If you warn a player you are fighting that another player is coming,  that is a check 6, and should be considered aiding another player against another.

I will state for the record that I think the passive communication and ganging that happens in KOTH degrades the event. Allowing VOX and IDs puts too much pressure on moderators to be aggressive in enforcing the spirit of not cooperating and "winging" by calling players out. If VOX silent, and IDs were removed the event would eliminate the possibility and hence perception of infractions.  There is no need for VOX, or IDs during flight in KOTH, so why have them?

Because TC narrates and gives warnings and check 6s against the rules, I choose not to participate. It's Fuseman's event, and he way feel this is a nuanced concept and he likes it the way it is. I respect his right to run it his way. 

[fuzeman]

Well, you got me cogitating now 
Holding part of the reply for further     

I 100% agree with "I will state for the record that I think the passive communication and ganging that happens in KOTH degrades the event?" but CM's are limited in what we can do in much of that. Many can't get the 'YOU against EVERYONE ELSE' and vice versa aspect of the event out of their coconuts, they have to help their buddy or squad mate.  When we had old range IN Tower coms that was much more discouraged as you got called out and DID NOT disrupt the other fights going on when someone brought up something fishy. How could you stop two telepathic twins who play AH from having passive communication, even if you were standing behind them at the time? Only thing we have is looking at the actions, peer pressure and getting honestly called out by other KOTH participants, and dealt with by CMs when it happens. I think if we tried to eliminate all coms it would just make third party apps flourish in there, I doubt we could all learn or boost our telepathic skills.
TC does NOT narrate the event or fights and if he did he'd be told not to. He does say he's entering the fight and I'll defer to my second line for the moment on that one.

I will argue 100% against the idea this is Fuseman's event, who IS this Fuseman 
fuzeman is just another player that asked to host KOTH and be a CM. I've always said it's KOTHers event and we'll put up opinions and discuss them and if the majority of KOTH participants want a change it would be considered and tried, if CMs have the ability to make that change. IF we don't and it's sort of feasible we pass it up the food chain and see what happens.
[ past meal time and my thoughts are going off in tangents, better end this one and go eat ]

10) Chat rule
  * Text chat is only allowed on squad and range (Only in tower)Text.  No Chatting on Vox or text on 101 and country chn.
  * <S> and good fight is still allowed on country channel and chn 101.
  * No check 6’s are allowed at ALL Times!

The spirit of the rule is that you are not allowed to coordinate or assist other players in the fight. If you warn a player you are fighting that another player is coming,  that is a check 6, and should be considered aiding another player against another.

I will state for the record that I think the passive communication and ganging that happens in KOTH degrades the event. Allowing VOX and IDs puts too much pressure on moderators to be aggressive in enforcing the spirit of not cooperating and "winging" by calling players out. If VOX silent, and IDs were removed the event would eliminate the possibility and hence perception of infractions.  There is no need for VOX, or IDs during flight in KOTH, so why have them?

Because TC narrates and gives warnings and check 6s against the rules, I choose not to participate. It's Fuseman's event, and he way feel this is a nuanced concept and he likes it the way it is. I respect his right to run it his way. 

[TequilaChaser]

You should really go back and thoroughly re-read the rules, because as of now and your recent post, you have not provided proof that I have violated any of the KOTH event rules

You are twisting the wording and are selectively picking at the rules to make it seem like you have caught me breaking the rules

When I have more time, I will make another post showing you where you are misinturpeting the rules that you are claiming that I broke....and just so you know, I sent a personal message to KOTH CM's to tell them that you starting this thread is because you in some way got upset thinking that I was breaking the rules and that you thought the KOTH CM's were playing favorites in which they are not and that they don't play favorites to no-one!

I stand by my statements

When I am at fault and I break a KOTH event rule(ex-  break alt limit) or come close to crossing the line-ex. Running out of ammo with 3 or more still fighting, I immediately Tower out, that's how much I respect the event and it's rules

I would also think that if I was in the wrong, the KOTH CM's would have already posted correcting me on where I am wrong!

I will try to find time this evening to show you where you are misinturpeting the rules, got to go fix dad's lunch and do his vitals, meds and insulin shots


TC

(see why I sent that PM, I expected that this was coming)

[TequilaChaser]

Hey fuzeman,

Dundee did not say anything about KOTH

It was Vinkman that brought it up

He claims that I cheat because I have always voiced to other participants that I was joining the fight or that I would tell others that I might be dogfighting/engaged with that another player was coming in to either try and pick us off as we kept fighting-%:

Ever since I participated in KOTH  back in AirWarrior all the way until now, I have done this....

There is no rule(s) that says this is not allowed, and finally, I have never been warned or called out about doing it

Vinkman showed up to a KOTH event recently and blew a gasket accusing me of cheating and "narrirating" the game play by  calling out where the players and fighting was happening.....  This is what vinkman claims


~S~

TC

I sent the above quoted message one month before you started this thread!

My apologies for saying that I sent it to both CMs, I actually thought I had but noticed I had only sent it to fuzeman (not Fuseman! ....but I do know both of them fuzeman and Fuseman ever since Air Warrior)

At this point I don't feel the need nor do I desire to waste any more of my time trying to show you where you are misinturpeting the rules.......

I'm not mad at you Vinkman, I'm just have to much other stuff that requires my attention at this time

~S~

TC

[fuzeman]

I have a discussion ongoing with Bruv about a new MOTD, rules, and updating things as 'The Rules'  posted above [use your Twilight Zone zone voice here from the episode: 'The Obsolete Man' ] are ob-so-lete and were written when we had range channel IN the tower and other CMs running the event.
Bare with us while we do but feel free to voice opinions and suggestions you think would improve the event.

[TequilaChaser]

I'm just going to stop saying anything PERIOD

and if Vinkman shows up, I will openly tell all of you that he will be the first one I go after every round, since he decided to accuse me of breaking rules and getting a free pass, which is completely untrue!

and I wish Bruv and fuzeman the best, with the new updated rules!

I've always thought of KOTH event as an advanced form of training and I never really needed or cared about being a KOTH event champion/winner

I have nothing else to say at this point in time


~S~

TC

Edit: my perspective of the check 6 rule is:  1st- I have never gave a "check 6" to anyone and if I say "another player is coming" when that other player is 5,000+ yards away from the engagement that I and others are currently in does not fall under the check 6 rule! How can it if they are over 5,000+ yards away and not even engaged or engaging in on any body?

It falls into the SA (situational awareness) part of air combat and I have always done it to teach newer players to pay attention of what is happening, I've never found it to be harmful to the event and there never has been a rule saying that it is not allowed.

Going back to when Skuzzy, Natedog and SuperFly taking a break once a month to fly the Friday afternoon KOTH event and ever since BigMax and Gremlin being the KOTH CM's with all CMs since, participating in the KOTH event rounds.....there  never has been an issue until "Vinkman" blowing up and accusing me of cheating and breaking the rules

I call BS

[TequilaChaser]

The same thing goes for when I'm 5,000+ yards away and I am heading to the next closest fight or aircraft.... I announce that I am entering the fight

Again, it is SA and not a check 6

I will add that in doing so, I've experienced that it calms down the players making or fussing about "well you picked me while I was already fighting" accusations

TC

[fuzeman]

KOTH coming up so we need to put something down I guess. Not the MOTD or rules but fication from clara on announcing you entering a fight.
I used what we have been doing in the past for many of my thoughts and I can not ever remember a KOTH host complaining or saying stop saying you are entering a fight and I flew them way back in Air Warrior.
Personally my reasoning is too many times I'd get a person waiting to enter a fight saying he didn't want to break up their fight and then a longer, disrupting discussion is required to explain that. Regular participants know that but some newer ones don't. That can not be construed as narrating a fight. As of now only one person has complained but if the majority of KOTH participants want that disallowed then NOW is the time to speak up. That's another way I based KOTH things, if the majority of KOTHers want something changed we'll have a go at it.
I did not make this decision alone, it's NOT MY event. I just run one of them. The KOTH Team had a discussion and came up with this clara-fication. Hope this settles the conTROVersy.

And regarding the rules posted at the top of the forum they are under construction and updating which was needed. Lets not base much on them word for word as we all have the basic understanding of how it goes. I don't want to have to bug Skuzzy and have him edit it until the new stuff is finished but if need be we'll do that.
We will even post it here for discussion too so everyone whom it pertains to can voice their opinion.

[TequilaChaser]

I will follow the KOTH CM's lead and KOTH event rules as I always have....

I will withdraw my statement of if Vinkman shows up, I will openly tell all of you that he will be the first one I go after every round, since he decided to accuse me of breaking rules and getting a free pass...because my goal is not to have any personal grievance with any KOTH participant! or drive players away from the KOTH event!

My goal is to keep the KOTH events going and to hopefully get new participants to keep coming back and invite others to come join in the fun and entertaining great dogfighting that this event has continued to have....

~S~

TC

[Vinkman]

Well, you got me cogitating now 
Holding part of the reply for further     

I 100% agree with "I will state for the record that I think the passive communication and ganging that happens in KOTH degrades the event?" but CM's are limited in what we can do in much of that. Many can't get the 'YOU against EVERYONE ELSE' and vice versa aspect of the event out of their coconuts, they have to help their buddy or squad mate.  When we had old range IN Tower coms that was much more discouraged as you got called out and DID NOT disrupt the other fights going on when someone brought up something fishy. How could you stop two telepathic twins who play AH from having passive communication, even if you were standing behind them at the time? Only thing we have is looking at the actions, peer pressure and getting honestly called out by other KOTH participants, and dealt with by CMs when it happens. I think if we tried to eliminate all coms it would just make third party apps flourish in there, I doubt we could all learn or boost our telepathic skills.
TC does NOT narrate the event or fights and if he did he'd be told not to. He does say he's entering the fight and I'll defer to my second line for the moment on that one.

I will argue 100% against the idea this is Fuseman's event, who IS this Fuseman 
fuzeman is just another player that asked to host KOTH and be a CM. I've always said it's KOTHers event and we'll put up opinions and discuss them and if the majority of KOTH participants want a change it would be considered and tried, if CMs have the ability to make that change. IF we don't and it's sort of feasible we pass it up the food chain and see what happens.
[ past meal time and my thoughts are going off in tangents, better end this one and go eat ]

  All I meant was you put a lot of effort into running it, and the regular players seem to have no issues and I don't want to ruin everyone's good time.

As for TC, yes he says when he's entering a fight, But he also announces who else is entering the fight. "Now Vinkman is coming to join us" was a comment made on more than one occasion.  I'm not accusing TC of cheating...I'm saying he shouldn't give check sixes. 

[Vinkman]

I'm just going to stop saying anything PERIOD

and if Vinkman shows up, I will openly tell all of you that he will be the first one I go after every round, since he decided to accuse me of breaking rules and getting a free pass, which is completely untrue!

and I wish Bruv and fuzeman the best, with the new updated rules!

I've always thought of KOTH event as an advanced form of training and I never really needed or cared about being a KOTH event champion/winner

I have nothing else to say at this point in time


~S~

TC

Edit: my perspective of the check 6 rule is:  1st- I have never gave a "check 6" to anyone and if I say "another player is coming" when that other player is 5,000+ yards away from the engagement that I and others are currently in does not fall under the check 6 rule! How can it if they are over 5,000+ yards away and not even engaged or engaging in on any body?

It falls into the SA (situational awareness) part of air combat and I have always done it to teach newer players to pay attention of what is happening, I've never found it to be harmful to the event and there never has been a rule saying that it is not allowed.

Going back to when Skuzzy, Natedog and SuperFly taking a break once a month to fly the Friday afternoon KOTH event and ever since BigMax and Gremlin being the KOTH CM's with all CMs since, participating in the KOTH event rounds.....there  never has been an issue until "Vinkman" blowing up and accusing me of cheating and breaking the rules

I call BS

you put words in my mouth and now you are getting upset by the words you made up.  Please don;t speak for me, because you do a very poor job of it.

See my above post is the following quote a violation or not?

"Lookout, here comes Vinkman into our fight." 

If the moderator thinks it isn't than there is no issue.  Again, I never accused you of cheating, I just don't know why you would make statement like that in a KOTH, and defend making it. Maybe you don't realize you call out approaching players too. So I have no gripe. But if you want to come for me first you'll know who I am because ICONs are active. Good luck 

[TequilaChaser]

Dang shame you weren't at any September KOTH events

I showed up to both just to back up a statement I had made but thought I'd went to far with it in reply# 20

But not knowing how many people actually saw what I posted before removing it, I had to back my talk with my walk!

No worries and it's all good, Vinkman

~S~

TC

[JunkyII]

I can understand being upset that someone announced another player entering a fight if you're that other player coming in. I don't think its stated specifically in the rules.

I, like TC do announce I'm coming in and even what direction I'm coming from.

[fuzeman]

I still have to say to people when you get to a fight enter it.
1] So we do not say I'm entering your fight and have a guy fly around the fight, avoiding it and then having a long minute discussion on the event and why he should have entered it.
2] We say I'm coming in and eliminate the fight avoiding. And if you don't see a guy entering the fight your SA is pretty bad.

ON the whole this dead horse is beaten enough