Author Topic: bullet dispersion (Read 377 times)

AKcurly · « **on:** July 24, 2001, 11:06:00 PM »

I would like to offer a few opinions (not facts) and see if anyone agrees.

First, let's go back to AH a year ago. A year ago, I could set the convergence at 650 and easily nail any level flying opponent in a F4U1c. It wasn't a tough shot at all.

Ok, move forward to the introduction of the ostwinds. Same thing here. If you held the trigger down, any plane flying away/towards you was dead meat out to 1.5k yards.

Months of pissing and moaning went by about the F4U1c and the Ostwind. I believe HTC's solution to this was to mess with round dispersion.

Today, you can fire a chog burst at someone and you may or may not hit if he's out around 600 yards. To be sure, if he flies straight and level and you're willing to expend 50% of your ammo load, yeah, you'll knock him down.

This has some nasty side effects. You cannot fire 1-2 second burst with a chog and be guaranteed of hitting anything at 400 yards, EVEN if you are dead on target.

The 109 guns (20 mm) will consistently hit a target at 300 yards. I don't like to shoot them beyond 300 because it does take a lot of ammo to kill something beyond 300.

Ok, here's the personal observation. The FW 190 d9 20mm guns are completely hosed. If the d9's guns would function like the 109 guns, man, it would be quite a ride! For me at least, with a d9, I can count on expending 50% of my ammo at 300 yards before I knock anything down.

If I am correct about the round dispersion being deliberately hosed for the F4U1c and the FW 190 d9, I think it's the wrong solution. Both planes are great and deliberatly crippling them isn't the solution.

I am not a fan of perk planes, but why not fix the round dispersion on the 1c and d9 and really perk them? Maybe put the 1c at 30 and the d9 at 20. Most of us don't even flinch at paying 8 perk points for a F4U1c if we're trying to take a base down.

Anyway, I guess my point is that I don't like the round dispersion on the d9 or F4U1c and I think it should be fixed.

OTOH, maybe I'm fulla crap and just don't know how to shoot the d9's cannons.

AKcurly

DeeZCamp · « **Reply #1 on:** July 24, 2001, 11:42:00 PM »

We should just turn off icons, wich will inturn make us fly more realistic, meaning... realistic judgment of where and how to track a target, and to not Shoot untill the enemy fighter fills the windscreen.(not tracking some big red placard saying.. here i am with distance info)

Icons is the reason we have 500 and up to 1.2k shooting lameness..

I really think that shooting anything beyond D300 is pretty pointless unless it is a nicely setup tracking snap shot revealing alot of planform.

anyway... icons is a part of the problem. If we had no icons.. when in Fighting parameters, people would aim and only shoot after aquireing a good gun solution.

pugg666 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 25, 2001, 12:19:00 AM »

you can't turn off the icons until you have country specific planesets(which i don't want, i love going up against other 51's

)

i do think that we can tone down the distance marker. say, you get the same distance marker you have now, until about d2 or so. under that distance and you only get plane type. i think it would make shooting and maneuvering a little bit more interesting

yaddaya think eh?

Urchin · « **Reply #3 on:** July 25, 2001, 12:39:00 AM »

Curly- I've noticed this as well (with the 190D9). The 20mm in the D9 do not SEEM to be as accurate as the 20mm in the A5,A8. However- I don't think it is the bullet dispersion, I think it is the way you are aiming. I know for me, I have to aim a lot higher with the D9 than with the A5 or A8 to score hits- but if a burst lands on target the plane will go down just like if I had hit it with a burst of 20mm from a 190a5 or a8.

It seems to me that the bullets "seem" to drop more- but what I really think it is is that the 190d9's longer nose screws up my aiming with the cannons. With the MGs it doesnt, but the MGs are actually mounted ON that tremendously long thing they call a nose

.

As a side note, I don't fly the D9 very often, so I may or may not be right here. I will say that when I am firing at a straight and level target I usually have to pull up until the target is almost obscured by the nose of the plane to score hits past d300 or so. I don't have to do that with the A5 or A8, which leads me to believe that the longer nose is messing up my aim, not anything inherently wrong with the guns.

Also- about the Ostie, they DID make the dispersion a lot bigger on that, I think when this version came out. I prefer the 4x.50s on the M16 though, so I really don't mind. It really might be MORE dangerous that way as an AA weapon, since it really only takes one hit from the thing to bring a plane down, and you are filling the air all around the target with lead with the larger dispersion.

Seeker · « **Reply #4 on:** July 25, 2001, 02:49:00 AM »

Urchin, if you've moved your seat position in the D9, you probably need to open up your gun sight in a graphics editor and adjust it.

StSanta · « **Reply #5 on:** July 25, 2001, 05:06:00 AM »

Same experience with D9 guns, haven't changed gunsight.

When they're dead on, they do a lotta damage. But it seems I have to aim higher than the enemy even when he's d300 and i got convergence set at 325.

Soulyss · « **Reply #6 on:** July 25, 2001, 02:51:00 PM »

Somthin was/(is?) fishy with the D9's guns I remember (wish I filmed it) being 300 yards or so back and closing on a lancaster put the piper square on one of his engines held it there and opened up and missed the whole thing completely. That lanc sure looked plenty big quickly filling my windscreen I couldn't believe I didn't score a single hit in that pass.

DeeZCamp · « **Reply #7 on:** July 25, 2001, 03:06:00 PM »

You dont need a rps for iconless to happen.. you just need To have friendly icons on.. and Enemy icons OFF...

could be implemented...

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #8 on:** July 25, 2001, 05:04:00 PM »

Soulyss, Santa, are you guys using the same gunsight for all planes or are you editing them to fit each plane you fly?

Someone suggested that to me a while back (Mathman maybe?) because I posted a film of me flying the D9 and shooting up a bunch of planes. I can send you the film if you want to see it, just so you can see someone else's perspective.
-SW

Mathman · « **Reply #9 on:** July 25, 2001, 05:52:00 PM »

I know I moved my head down a bit in the Dora back when I was flying it. I use historic gunsights for the planes, don't know if they are any better accuracy wise, but they do look better than the default ones.

As for gunnery, I can't hit squat in cannon only planes like the N1K and the C Hog (exception being the Tempest when I go goon hunting

). I am not sure why this is the case, but I think it has to do with the cannons lower rate of fire. Probably more mental than anything else (I much prefer the chatter of MG's to the thumping of cannons).

Oh well, my 2/5 of a nickel's worth.

-math

Tac · « **Reply #10 on:** July 25, 2001, 05:53:00 PM »

look at the 38's guns too. all packed in the nose, barely a palm's width apart.. and you can hit a plane with them and you have to hit em for some time to kill. Then P-51 guns outside convergence take the same amount of time and lead to kill. Shouldnt such concentration of lead literally punch a hole the size of the 38's nose when it hits something? and im not even bringing the 20mm cannon into the equation!

On a side note, anyone know what effect the convergence setting have on the 38? They seem to affect only the vertical... and very, very slightly. HT? Pyro?