Author Topic: F4F4 turning ability? (Read 228 times)

GRUNHERZ · « **on:** September 16, 2002, 05:32:17 AM »

I have been in a few of the CT setups where F4F4 fought against the A6M2. I found its turning ability to be nearly a match for the A6M2 - from the cockpit of both. I was surprised but since I dont plan to fly either plane much wasnt overly concerned. However some other guys have brought this up recently and it has piqued my interest again.

Why does it turn so well? I thought the F4F4 was widely disliked for being too heavy due to wingfolds and extra guns compared to the F4F3. If the F4F4 is such a close match to the A6M2 how would the much lighter F4F3 fare - perhaps outurn the zero?

mipoikel · « **Reply #1 on:** September 16, 2002, 06:20:06 AM »

hssss...

This conversation is forbidden!

Imp · « **Reply #2 on:** September 16, 2002, 06:26:46 AM »

mipoikel and others who fly the FM2 and F4F4 dont want everybody else to know how good they turn so shut up

oboe · « **Reply #3 on:** September 16, 2002, 06:38:33 AM »

Sure helps to have someone other than the IJN point this out.

But what kind of turn are you talking about - instantaneous or sustained? What is your entry speed - 300+ mph or under 250?

Makes a difference.

Wilbus · « **Reply #4 on:** September 16, 2002, 07:04:52 AM »

The rest of us already knows it turns on a dime

Zekes in the CT setup 2 weeks ago or so didn't stand a chance against my FM2

F4F wing loading is 30,67 lbs/square feet.
A6M2 wing loading is 22,38 lbs/square feet.

Calculations could be wrong so better do it your self aswell.

Used the weights on HTC webpage together with the 238 square feet wing area of the zeke from this page and then the wing area of the F4F , of 260 square feet, from the book "American War planes of World War II".

brady · « **Reply #5 on:** September 16, 2002, 07:25:46 AM »

Yes I too was very suprised at how well it handled, which seamed to be in sharp contridication to what I had read on the subject, I think when I out turn fought 2 Georges at once all by myself, and they later told me they were using flaps to try and manuaver with we me that I got real suspichious, not to mention how well it does aganst the Zero.

But as they say this all "oppinion" based on impreshions from years of reading on the subject, no hard facts to throw your way.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #6 on:** September 16, 2002, 07:59:10 AM »

Brady check out my guess this vehicle post.

hazed- · « **Reply #7 on:** September 16, 2002, 09:35:32 AM »

pah why bother asking

Angus · « **Reply #8 on:** September 16, 2002, 10:08:40 AM »

The bloody F4F out turns a Spitfire, which it should definately not.
I wonder if it turns any worse than the FM-2, but FM-2 should be significally better. And against a Zeke, it should not stand a chance fot more than a circle or so.

H. Godwineson · « **Reply #9 on:** September 16, 2002, 10:31:04 AM »

Angus,

That depends on the specific Mark of Spitfire that you are talking about.

The early Mk I and Mk II Spitfires tipped the scales, if memory serves, at about 5500 pounds, or a bit more, loaded. The late-war Marks were considerably heavier, weighing between 8000 and 10000 pounds, loaded. The is the same weight as an unloaded Hellcat! The higher weight is better than 75% higher than the earlier Spitfire marks. Since the wing area of the Spit remained virtually unchanged, wing-loading was considerably higher, greatly penalizing the Spit's manuverability at low speeds.

Being low and slow in such a beast against early war planes is not where you want to be. The FM-2 was so maneuverable at low speeds, that it took a Zero 25 eight and a half full turns to gain enough lead for a killing shot. Since no Spit could ever match a Zero in low-speed turning, it is possible for the FM-2 to outmaneuver some of the later Spitfire marks.

Regards, Shuckins

Angus · « **Reply #10 on:** September 16, 2002, 12:02:14 PM »

I tested an FM-2 against a Spitfire MK.V in the T.A. The Spitfire had a slight edge in sustained turnings.
I never tested the FM-2 vs the F4F, but once I gout out turned completely in my Spit MK.IX by an F4F. He may have had some E-advantage though.
Although the Spitfire wing loading was increasing steadily, so was their Power. Increased wing loading did definately affect turn performance to the worse, but not so much as one might think.

mipoikel · « **Reply #11 on:** September 16, 2002, 12:35:46 PM »

I'm sure we see more F4F4's in MA after this!

Modas · « **Reply #12 on:** September 16, 2002, 01:55:26 PM »

Bring 'em on!!! I'll just out run them

Course, I fly 'em a lot too..... hehehehe