Author Topic: Dot dar (Read 520 times)

Squire · « **on:** November 04, 2002, 08:56:52 PM »

Some reason we need it in the CT when we have inflight bar dar? Seems a like very big crutch. Sectors are not so big you cant find a fight with bar dar on.

Bombers are plotted even at low level with perfect accuracy, its very hard to disengage, and nobody needs to have good SA when all you do is hit the button to see if any cons are near you.

Its setup to insure a furball, which is too bad. It also discourages folks from even trying a medium bomber sortie.

A perfect map, flashing bases, bar dar, and icons at 3000 yards are more than enough, yes?

Regards

Karnak · « **Reply #1 on:** November 05, 2002, 12:31:33 AM »

Because WWII radar provided far, far more information and accuracy than you are suggesting.

Personally, I think radar and icons are too limited in the CT.

J_A_B · « **Reply #2 on:** November 05, 2002, 12:38:43 AM »

What, haven't you heard Karnak? More difficult MUST mean it's more realistic!

J_A_B

Eagler · « **Reply #3 on:** November 05, 2002, 05:02:23 AM »

what Squire said

was thinking that last night

can you kill enemy dot dar, keep friendly dot dar and enemy bar dar?

friendly dot dar - so you don't chase a dot half way across the map only to find out its friendly, would simulate radio traffic which would have communicated same info

Squire · « **Reply #4 on:** November 05, 2002, 09:14:01 AM »

The LW guys must get tired of having a nice 25k bounce thrown away by the the dot dar, yes? Come down in your Fw190 and the Spit breaks hard at 500 yards, even though he never would have seen you otherwise. You like that?

Dive on a F6F in your A6M5, and he sees this red dot coming in on his 6, and points his nose down and extends away, cool. That must be great. Oh ya, try and escape in a slower fighter too, not going to happen, because even though you outmanuevered them, and they lost sight of you, him and his 3 wingmen just hit "esc", and now they are coming back...knowing exactly where you are. Neeto.

Bar dar represents the kind of generalised info that would be attained from WW2 era GCI stations more than adequately. It gives indications of friend and foe, as well as the rough strengths. In the Vietnam War the USAF fighters didnt have info as good as we get with dot dar inflight. Perhaps today, with digital data links some of the most modern fighters can get something like it, like ADV Tornado or F-14D.

Dot dar, updated like an awacs is a big crutch. Thats why they have it in the MA. For the kiddies.

Later.

Shane · « **Reply #5 on:** November 05, 2002, 09:26:08 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Squire
Dot dar, updated like an awacs is a big crutch. Thats why they have it in the MA. For the kiddies.
Later.

and a lesser version of it in CT for the "little kiddies."

Squire · « **Reply #6 on:** November 05, 2002, 09:36:29 AM »

It also promotes, and makes easier the gangbanging that we all say we dislike, there is no greater tool in the CT gang bang toolbox than dot dar is, "look a 5 on 2 just SW at 10 miles, neeto"...

P.S. Shane I have no idea what your post means, you for it or against it?. Your in the CT a lot, post away.

Later.

Shane · « **Reply #7 on:** November 05, 2002, 10:26:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Squire
It also promotes, and makes easier the gangbanging that we all say we dislike, there is no greater tool in the CT gang bang toolbox than dot dar is, "look a 5 on 2 just SW at 10 miles, neeto"...
P.S. Shane I have no idea what your post means, you for it or against it?. Your in the CT a lot, post away.
Later.

actually less dar promotes gangbanging, you see 3-4 dots in the distance, you dunno what they are (no dar) so you wander over and bam! 3-4 baddies on ya! or it could be a 3 on 1 in progress. having dot dar helps analyze the situation.

having said that, i can live with how it is now (infrequent updates on dat dar), but personally i think having dot dar helps find fights.

i bounce people often enough both in CT and MA despite having that AWACs dar ability.

bar dar alone without dot dar can result in frustrating con chases at times.

but like i said, i can live with it how it is now... perhaps friendly only dot dar over friendly territory with bar dar enabled everywhere with no range restrictions.

often numbers are low enough already, why make it more difficult to find action? that's one thing that is apparently holding back some MA dweebs from playing in CT more. I think the more people the better, and since CT already mimics MA in many ways, may as well try and pull in some more people.

more difficult doesn't always translate to "better."

but let me say for the 3rd time, i can live with how it's usually set up.

Squire · « **Reply #8 on:** November 05, 2002, 11:10:37 AM »

"actually less dar promotes gangbanging, you see 3-4 dots in the distance, you dunno what they are (no dar) so you wander over and bam! 3-4 baddies on ya! or it could be a 3 on 1 in progress. having dot dar helps analyze the situation."

It sure does, the 3 cons head right for you, after "analyzing the situation" hehe

I think the whole "finding a fight" arguement is overblown big time, we have bar dar (and flashing bases) nobody is suggesting do away with it, I dont understand the resistance to clinging to it in CT.

Just remember dot dar when we complain why folks wont up more bombers for missions, or when those 3 F6Fs that were 5 miles away are now going to chase you 2 sectors cuz they know you are alone.

Later.

Shane · « **Reply #9 on:** November 05, 2002, 11:23:45 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Squire
[BIt sure does, the 3 cons head right for you, after "analyzing the situation" hehe

Just remember dot dar when we complain why folks wont up more bombers for missions, or when those 3 F6Fs that were 5 miles away are now going to chase you 2 sectors cuz they know you are alone.

Later. [/B]

well the reverse is true... seeing those 3 bad dots might help you avoid the impending gangbang. it cuts both ways.

5 miles is only 8k away... well within visual range anyway.

besides, why should someone be flying a buff alone? doesn't that go counter to what the CT is supposed to be? " "

if you're (generic) gonna do MA-like stuff, why not have MA-like settings?

Oldman731 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 05, 2002, 11:32:43 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Squire
"actually less dar promotes gangbanging, you see 3-4 dots in the distance, you dunno what they are (no dar) so you wander over and bam! 3-4 baddies on ya! or it could be a 3 on 1 in progress. having dot dar helps analyze the situation."

It sure does, the 3 cons head right for you, after "analyzing the situation" hehe

I think the whole "finding a fight" arguement is overblown big time, we have bar dar (and flashing bases) nobody is suggesting do away with it, I dont understand the resistance to clinging to it in CT.

Just remember dot dar when we complain why folks wont up more bombers for missions, or when those 3 F6Fs that were 5 miles away are now going to chase you 2 sectors cuz they know you are alone.

I haven't noticed this sort of gang mentality, per se. When people fly in squads, you'll see ganging, just because they're all traveling together. When the dot dar isn't working, you'll see people ganging, for the reason Shane posted, i.e. they don't know who all those little dots are. But the notion that people in the CT deliberately set out to find fights where they will outnumber the defenders is something that I've missed, and hope to continue to miss.

For my part: the biggest problem in CT is still priming the pump with enough people, so that those logging on will see adequate numbers and will then stop in to visit. One of the reasons frequently given for avoiding the CT is that it takes too long to find a fight. So it seems to me that anything that helps people to find a fight is a good thing. I think that bar DAR probably is sufficient for this, but because it doesn't pick up low-flying planes, it's often useless. I would like to see bar DAR that logs every plane from the ground up. Wouldn't mind if you skipped the dots, but would really like to have a better bar DAR.

- oldman