Author Topic: Public schools in the US (Read 570 times)

capt. apathy · « **Reply #15 on:** January 17, 2003, 11:21:22 AM »

Vouchers would be great. Nothing like a little free market competition to make public schools more competitive and 'trim the fat'.

After dealing with this for the last 13 years (3 kids, oldest graduates this year) I don't think the problem is money.

If we gave them more money, they would just start more special programs when the economy is good and they have extra, then begin to feel entitled to that cash and when the economy goes down start crying for more money.

Right now they are talking about ending the school year a couple months early, due to lack of funding (they already attend about 20 days less than when I was a kid & the days are shorter, maybe 20% are 1/2 days).

Next week my youngest daughter is going on a 'field trip' to Mt. Hood to play in the snow. WTF?!?! We are having a special election right now to take a 3-year increase in income tax to cover the tax 'shortage'.

Maybe the funding would go farther if they used the education funding for education.

Get rid of the political indoctrination crap. And other business that has nothing to do with education, and a lot to do with turning kids into little PC sheep.

Here is just a few of the huge wastes of time and money.

1. D.A.R.E program- they say it's funded by the police (who also want more money) but when the dare program is going you have a teacher sitting on her bellybutton not teaching, and a class full of kids not learning. It costs us the same to have them there as any other day but they aren't learning. All this is, is propaganda to keep this stupid 'war on drugs' going, (another huge waste of $$ but that’s another rant)

2. Various touchy-feely emotional crap. One of my kids actually had a class called 'the circle’ for about 1/2 hour a day the class would sit in a circle and go from kid to kid, when your turn came you would complement someone else in the class. As a member of the work force in this country I can tell you there is no shortage of suck-asses in this country, don’t train any more!!

3. ESL- I know this will be a sore spot with many, but here goes. We need to declare English as the official language of this country. All business should be done in English. If you don't speak the language, you should learn it. I would never move to another country without either learning the language or expecting the price of a translator to come from my wallet. I do believe we should fund class to teach immigrants English. However, this should not come from our kids school fund. It could partially be funded through the money we could save, by not having to print every gov't notice in 20 different languages. The rest could come from the dept. of immigration, they should teach all immigrants to speak English and when they run out of funding and can't afford to teach anymore then stop letting those that require teaching in until next years funding arrives.

4. Field trips should be for educational purpose only- when I was a kid we went places like museums of science, art, and natural history. We went to the zoo, state capital, and the forestry center. My kids have a trip to play in the snow, and field trips to go shopping at the mall (not only are they wasting my tax dollars but I'm supposed to provide additional cash for shopping)

5. Kids with no intention of learning- we guarantee the right to an education, that shouldn't mean we force you to take advantage of it. We should have different classes in the same subject. You could have your basic class where you learn. If you can't or wont, control your behavior you can go to a class with others who can't behave so you can distract each other. The kids who want to learn can have a teacher who can spend there time teaching and the rest can have a teacher who is dealing with kids who pull that kind of crap. And if they can't stay out of trouble in that class show them the door.

6. Drop outs & being held back- nobody wants to admit it. It’s not politically correct, but some people are just stupid. They don't and never will have the mental capacity to complete highschool level work (where it should be not where it is). Why do we waste our money and their time trying to convince them to stick it out? It cheapens the value of a diploma for the kids who earn it and wastes the time of everyone involved. If you can pass the requirements for each grade, you move on. If not you take this year again. After a kid hits 18-20 yr. old in the 6th grade, we should probably figure that’s about the best he can do. Everyone has a purpose in life, even if it’s only to serve as an example to others. Your not doing him any favors by keeping him in school, he could be working at Wal-Mart.

lazs2 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 17, 2003, 11:32:00 AM »

yep... no way that a voucher system could cost even half of what public schools do... No way that a voucher system wouldn't increase overall academic achievement by at least 20-100%.
lazs

Nifty · « **Reply #17 on:** January 17, 2003, 11:42:58 AM »

based on what, lazs? you have sources for the economical impacts?

lazs2 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 17, 2003, 11:58:34 AM »

based on the the results and costs of both private and public schools currently. What it costs per student and what results are achieved. A study in NY with 100 low achievers proved that a private school could improve even thier achievement level and... at a fraction of what public schools spend.
lazs

midnight Target · « **Reply #19 on:** January 17, 2003, 12:00:12 PM »

The worst thing we have done in this country is reduce funding for the extracurricular activities.

Arts
Sports
Clubs
etc.

For example. A girl tries out and is successful in her bid to be a cheerleader. Her parents must now shell out over $900 for uniforms and other items, not to mention cost of training camps etc.

Airhead · « **Reply #20 on:** January 17, 2003, 12:17:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
yep... no way that a voucher system could cost even half of what public schools do...
lazs

Well, that makes sense Lazs because a voucher system would only educate half as many kids. The parents that want to send their kid to a private school already do. Really, it's not that expensive- bout three grand tuition to a good private high school.

Pulling money out of public schools will deteroriate public education to the point where the only way to get an education will be in private schools- now who wants to be the first to open a private school in Watts?

capt. apathy · « **Reply #21 on:** January 17, 2003, 12:21:27 PM »

-------------------
The parents that want to send their kid to a private school already do.
------------------

are you high?? where the hell do you live? anybody in my area would rather have their kids in a private school. none of them can afford it. I've checked into it and it would cost me about 10-12 k per year in tuition alone to send my kids to private school. that doesn't even include books, uniforms, and other supplys. all this on top of the already high cost of raising kids.

whgates3 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 17, 2003, 12:22:00 PM »

the public schools in fairfax county, VA are fantastic.
the only people who send their kids to private schools in fairfax county are the very religious & snobs. other public school systems should just emulate fairfax county, VA schools

Nifty · « **Reply #23 on:** January 17, 2003, 12:25:46 PM »

umm, Airhead. It's Uncle Earnie and fiddle about, unless you did that intentionally, in which case I can't place Albert.

you're right tho, kinda gives new insight into the inspiration for that part of the "opera."

lazs2 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 17, 2003, 01:14:29 PM »

I wouldn't raise a family in watts but.... If there was a demand there would be a school. I believe that even with half of what we spend per student the private school industry would be competing for your child in every city.

public schools are a crime against humanity.
lazs

Horn · « **Reply #25 on:** January 17, 2003, 01:25:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by whgates3
the public schools in fairfax county, VA are fantastic.
the only people who send their kids to private schools in fairfax county are the very religious & snobs. other public school systems should just emulate fairfax county, VA schools

Other public school systems would kill for Fairfax County's tax base- it is one of the richest counties in the USA--teachers are paid well and the school standards are pretty high. Probably not something that other counties, say PG county as an example, could emulate.

dh
(Langley)

ra · « **Reply #26 on:** January 17, 2003, 01:51:06 PM »

Quote

Other public school systems would kill for Fairfax County's tax base- it is one of the richest counties in the USA--teachers are paid well and the school standards are pretty high. Probably not something that other counties, say PG county as an example, could emulate.

It isn't a question of money, it's a question of the quality of the community. In Fairfax there is a higher level of education among parents than in most other areas. That reflects on the attitude toward education, and on the standards for public schools. No amount of government involvement can create that attitude. Fairfax is a good example of how public school systems reflect the community. In less prosperous communities the schools are crap no matter how much money is pumped into them, because there is so much community apathy. So letting parents in those communities have vouchers would give their kids a chance at a real education somewhere else. Public schools are failing to educate kids all over the country and have been failing for decades. The best thing a parent can do is get their kids out of failed schools and into successful schools, and vouchers would make this expensive proposition much more attainable to poor parents who care about their kids' education. Parents should not be forced to send their kids to schools which are known to be failing.

ra

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 17, 2003, 02:09:23 PM »

SO I hear they are trying to get away from test cause they are not fair to minorites?

Is this true?

I hear everyone passes no mater what? Is that true?

Horn · « **Reply #28 on:** January 17, 2003, 02:32:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by ra
It isn't a question of money, it's a question of the quality of the community. In Fairfax there is a higher level of education among parents than in most other areas.

In less prosperous communities the schools are crap no matter how much money is pumped into them, because there is so much community apathy. So letting parents in those communities have vouchers would give their kids a chance at a real education somewhere else.

The best thing a parent can do is get their kids out of failed schools and into successful schools, and vouchers would make this expensive proposition much more attainable to poor parents who care about their kids' education. Parents should not be forced to send their kids to schools which are known to be failing.

ra

Ok so money isn't the only reason that the schools are good, but I challenge you to find a rich county that does not have a good school system.

I'm of a mixed mind about the vouchers; on one hand, it seems like a good idea--send your kid to a better school for the same money it costs to send them to a bad school, but on the other hand, what happens to the schools vacated by the voucher users? Does the bad school just go into a death spiral that leads to its closure?

Seems like it would be easier to fix the "bad" schools than remove a school from the community.

dh

whgates3 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 17, 2003, 04:05:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Horn
Other public school systems would kill for Fairfax County's tax base- it is one of the richest counties in the USA--teachers are paid well and the school standards are pretty high. Probably not something that other counties, say PG county as an example, could emulate.

dh
(Langley)

plenty of other counties have similar tax base (generally those of simlar wealth are of similar education, discounting professional entertainers) & far lesser schools...what else is different about fairfax co?