Author Topic: Ensign Eliminator=Easy Mode (Read 260 times)

tshred · « **on:** September 13, 2000, 05:28:00 AM »

I never thought I'd see the day....

F4U on final, 100% fuel,full flaps, gear down, power off to 1500 Man full RPMs,100 mph approach speed. Oh oh, what's this? The deck officer> WAVE OFF WAVE OFF. Ok, shove in full power , hard rudder input to counter...., no wait, no rudder input needed for go around!?. Wasn't this bird the "Ensign Eliminator"? All the a/c did was bob the nose back and forth the first try(rudder out of trim), the second it didn't even budge (trimmed this time, oops)when I quickly shoved the throttle fwd, no rudder input needed to keep from flipping over on my back! Even on Take off rudder use is at a minimum to maintain control, nothing like it was before. (All tests made without using combat trim or auto trim, I manually trim always)

So HTC, is this on purpose? Or is this still a bug in the FM that needs to be worked out.

Or was it overmodeled in the first place? An explanation is in order please. I used to have to really stay on top of the rudder when the a/c(F4U) got slow at hi power settings, now, it is almost unecessary to worry about rudder input at all. I also have yet to hear the stall horn indicate an accelerated stall ever(or better yet the way I fly it) flying the Corsair since the new patch. And it seems like I'm experiencing accelerated stalls earlier now in my trusty P38L! Maybe it's just perception now that the Corsair doesn't seem to suffer from them at all from what it used to be(was it correct in the first place?).

Now, I have never flown one before, but it was modeled with particular torque and yaw characteristics during slow phases of flight from day one of it's introduction in Aces High, and now it shows none of those characteristics I used to worry about. Now just hop in it, shove the throttle forward with want and abandon, and roar on down the runway with only the slightest thought about maintaining directional control (in comparisson to before 1.04). Maybe it is closer to reality now. I really can't say.

Ok, be easy on me, the catchy title was to get ya in here to look. I'm not ranting about the Corsair. I'm just wondering if we are finally getting the dreaded 'compromise for gameplay' all Sims seem to suffer from after their introduction. Or are there still some issues to be worked out with the new FM's? Or is it modeled more correctly now? What do you think?

ts

-duma- · « **Reply #1 on:** September 13, 2000, 05:58:00 AM »

Same with the Typhoon. But I don't think it's anything to do with 'dumbing down', just a consequence of the technical aspects involved in such a huge flight modelling change as 1.04 has seen.

A bit irritating though, since I was working on Torque-assisted hammerheads in the Typhoon before

Not much use for that now in any case, with the new Tiffy FM.

RAM · « **Reply #2 on:** September 13, 2000, 06:04:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by tshred:

So HTC, is this on purpose? Or is this still a bug in the FM that needs to be worked out.

Huhmmm...ts, I dunno if it is on purpose or not, but for sure is not a bug. It has been reported from the very first day of 1.04, and if it was a bug they'd have fixed it in 1.04 P1.

You talk about F4U. I'll talk about Typhoon. This monster was the reason because RAF airfield quitted some hangars on the right side of their fields. Even with full rudder deflection this beast yawed hard to the right due to the enormous torque, with the result that many Typhoons smashed into the right side hangars!!!!!

In AH, you go WEP, compensate a bit with rudder, and there yah go up to the skies...

Is something to wonder about, no doubt

funked · « **Reply #3 on:** September 13, 2000, 06:18:00 AM »

I don't think HTC is done patching yet.

WarChild · « **Reply #4 on:** September 13, 2000, 06:30:00 AM »

Well I'll add this to the pot. VMF - 323 was doing an airshow 9 pm Est last night. This consisted of fly throughs of the double FH's at A15. This became way below our standards quickly enough and we proceded to do inverted fly throughs of th BH. Only Vosper pulled this of and lived, but many of our pilots made it through just to clip a wing. We were doing this in F4's. Hehehe soon enough we had 6 people trying it

And no.. when we fliped them babies on thier back side.. very little torque was involved.. kinda disconcerning.

WE HAVE FILM

------------------
WarChild
VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~
"Where's the Charmin!"

Duckwing6 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 13, 2000, 06:45:00 AM »

Agreed 100% Tshred ..

All the Torque/slipstream effects seem to be reduced too far and i don't think only the F4U is applicable .. i think it's for the oter A/C too ..

Lucchini · « **Reply #6 on:** September 13, 2000, 07:53:00 AM »

Anyway my feeling is that in the near future we'll see 80% F4U around as it turns better than my N1K, is very fast, easy to control in high speed dives, rolls better than a 190, his (her?) gunnery is incredibly powerful and vice versa I need a lot of N1K 20mms to shot it down.
I dunno if it was really so good but all I don't want is a fully F4U arena.

Ciao
Lucc

funked · « **Reply #7 on:** September 13, 2000, 07:55:00 AM »

F4U does not turn better than N1K2. Flew this matchup on Saturday and the N1K2 is definitely the boss. F4U can B&Z but a turnfight with the N1K2 is hopeless.

Apache · « **Reply #8 on:** September 13, 2000, 08:01:00 AM »

Agreed funked! There is absolutely no way a hog out turns a George. My Gosh, they are certainly my nemesis.
I'm with the rest of you on the torque. Almost non-existent.

------------------
Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site

hitech · « **Reply #9 on:** September 13, 2000, 08:07:00 AM »

Torque was increased on all planes, somewhere between double and tripled. Slip stream effect and twist angles were changed.

HiTech

Lucchini · « **Reply #10 on:** September 13, 2000, 08:49:00 AM »

Try a fast T&Z with a good hog pilot!
The only way is to drag him to a low alt tight duel and hope your wep is 100% available and keep in mind his Hispanos!

Anyway how many F4u du u see around?
Some people in my squad have already changed to f4u and more will do it, belive me.
I will stay in my n1k2 of course.
Ciao
Lucc

popeye · « **Reply #11 on:** September 13, 2000, 10:08:00 AM »

"Torque was increased on all planes, somewhere between double and tripled. Slip stream effect and twist angles were changed."

I guess I don't know how slip stream effect and twist angles affect the plane. Did those changes make the Hog and Tiffie so much easier to handle?

popeye

F4UDOA · « **Reply #12 on:** September 13, 2000, 04:36:00 PM »

Tshred,

The stall speed of an F4U with full flaps from the pilots manual is 66knots or 76MPH.
In other words the F4U should be pretty steady at 100MPH as tested.

Remember the F4U was a tough A/C to land on a ship. On dry land it required less rudder trim than many Army mounts on take off. Only 6 degrees of rudder trim required for the F4U from the manual.

As far as maneuvering goes the N1KI will out turn the F4U by almost 30% in AH. The F4U will out turn the P-51D by almost 10%. I have not been able to complete any further testing as I am doing this is the SEA with a squad mate vrs the other A/C head to head. In the mean time I am waiting for BadBoy to post his results on the net. And I am very contect with 1.04 even though my score this tour is not good so far.

Later
F4UDOA

airspro · « **Reply #13 on:** September 13, 2000, 04:38:00 PM »

Just go and ask your Radio Control buddies how the Hog flys for them . My friend at work has flown RC for 10 years and every time I ask him he always comes up with a good answer , seems to me .

Sooooo I asked him about the Hog , he just replyed this , you have to make a long roll out don't you ?? Ya < I did "before" .

cheers spro