Author Topic: Evasives?  (Read 201 times)

Ender

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Evasives?
« on: November 16, 1999, 08:05:00 PM »
Greetings!  

I'm still fairly new to AH (less then 4 hrs accumulated flight time, flying ponies & N1Ks  (plus the odd B-17 sortie, in order to get familiar with AH gunnery). I'm slowly developing a grasp of what can or cannot be done with the AH FMs.

Now, it is most certainly just my lack of experience with AH, but so far I haven't seen any effective evasives done nor have I been able to evade myself in a low alt chase situation. I've tried scissors, jinking, and rolls/barrel rolls but to no avail. I'd end up either bleeding too much E or not enough Gs to throw off the aim of my pursuiers.

So, my question is, what kinds of evasives seem to work best for you?

-kier-

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Evasives?
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 1999, 09:32:00 PM »
Speed is the best evasive!  

Seriously, if you bury yourself deep and low in enemy territory, you're in trouble. You can use the evasives you describe, and they work to a point, but someone(s) will nail you from behind eventually.

1 vs. 1 I use scissors, pitch-ups, and spiral dives. Riding the edge of blackout will keep them from getting a solution for a while. In the end you have to choose the fight carefully.

Tonight I was Bishop, and we were flying to 8 to find (I kid you not) at least 20 enemies circling the field at alt! Wimp and I were Nikki's and there was no escape. You should have seen them all dive down for two planes! No amount of evasives could save us from that. Add to that a bad connest night (pour gobs of ammo into stuff, nothing dies. Someone passes you 3.0 away and 90 degrees off angle and you lose a wing... ). We just kept going back, and those lazy rooks just hovered the base. This played over and over, dive in, hit a few, no results, 5-10 reds stream after you. Speed is the only evasive!

I got to see both ends of the conx issue. 1999 shot me down, and I have to tell you, his nose was never pointed anywhere near me on my FE. He is great, but that one I chalked up to connect...

Then I flew out again, (this time Spit) and was jumped by another high 51. Now most 51's expect you to try to climb to them... mistake. I was running level at 350 and decided to let him make the first move.

He rolls on my high 6, and I could almost see the wide smile spreading over his face. I let him build his speed up and then I pulled a hard vert, rolled level, and there he was crossing my sights. I gave it to him at 300 or so on my FE, he climbed a bit more, the field hit him some, and he died. He radioed "what hit me?" and I told him what happened. He said I was 800 back on his FE, and he was probably right. So I chalk that kill up to connect, too, and decided I'd better log and hope for better net weather tomorrow.  

Good to see you trying this out bud. We'll grab some 51's and play the energy game... you're gonna love it!

Offline Hristo

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Evasives?
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 1999, 12:35:00 AM »
Want to learn evasives hard way ? Take 190  

190 is a challenging ride, considering evasives. Just by pulling on the stick you can die very quickly, but if you use that awesome roll   Wow !

Some alt below you helps also, controls are beautiful and don't lock up. Blackout might also be a solution sometimes.

A-8 with outer cannons removed feels like A-4, IMO.

Flat scissors, accompanied with great roll rate really make them work for a kill. In 1v1, any plane has hard time scissoring with 190. Still, you better have friendlies close, because you can't do it forever, nor you can run away from most popular planes (P-51 comes to mind). Getting shot in 190 by multi Spit/P-51 gang bang is really no compliment for flying skills of those gangbangers and they know it  

I haven't tried vertical components in scissors, but 190 seems too heavy for that.

It is frustrating to work hard and cross paths with bogey who was on your six, just to find him d20-25 behind and catching up again.

So, IMHO, 190A-8 is great E and discipline trainer, with some tricks to use when in trouble. Flown in pairs, it might be very competitive indeed.


Offline Dinger

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Evasives?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 1999, 01:14:00 AM »
Hehe, well ender, after you shot me down several times, I guess I shouldn't be posting here.
When I do pull off a successful ACM (as opposed to clouds, or running, or heading to the ack umbrella or friendlies) evasive (in LW iron at the moment), it's usually scissors (flat or vertical) or an FW barrell roll, typically coupled with chopping the throttle to force an overshoot.  I haven't found enough down elevator to do any fancy negative-G stuff.  Nor have I seen any success with a split-ess (I just get watch the spits saddle up from my rear-up view).

Offline Hristo

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Evasives?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 1999, 01:30:00 AM »
Few more things Dinger reminded me:

Negative Gs in 109 need attention, please HTC crew !

Also, I have wing tanks indicators in 190. Now, I am certain it did not have those. When it gets corrected, can we expect less roll inertia, or is this just a bug ?

Offline leonid

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Evasives?
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 1999, 03:58:00 AM »
Hi Ender,
If this is the same ender of ~RK^, then salutes from 'ol batu  

In AH it appears that inertia plays a slightly greater roll, overall, than in WB.  Hence, accelerations take a bit longer, rolls take more time, turns need to be pulled a little harder.  But also, zoom climbs appear to last longer, and stalls don't seem to come on so quickly.

Like -kier- states above, speed (or E) matters a bit more here than in WB.  Thus, if you can get yourself as much energy at each merge with an opponent, then you're probably going in the right 'direction'.

As for evasives, I use snap rolls, barrel rolls, scissors, split ess, power dives, and break turns.  

Snap rolls work great on a tailing opponent that is bearing down at great speed, as does barrel roll, but snap rolls are more contained, quicker, and more controllable.  

Scissors are good, but your reactions must be immediate.  I tend to incorporate yoyos in my scissors initially, then see where that takes me.

Split ess is very effective at evasive, but requires alt to perform.  If combined with a pitch-up and immelmann, split ess can be used almost endlessly.  However, like a break turn, keep the opponent squarely in the center of your TOP view to avoid giving them a good deflection solution at the merge.

Power dive is a last resort, but if used should be used decisively and with the object of getting out.  Works best right after a merge when your opponent has to 180 his vector to follow.  Power dive is ideal for fast accelerators and those with high top speeds.

Break turn works just the same here as in WB.  Just make sure you have fair to good speed.  1500yds still makes a good mark to initiate the break.  However, make sure your opponent is squarely in the center of your TOP view.  Also, it's good to incorporate a slight descent with the break.

In AH, energy is more precious than in WB, so any time you can acquire it, do so.

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129 IAP VVS RKKA


ingame: Raz

DOW_Cleaner

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Evasives?
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 1999, 09:30:00 AM »
Or are you the Ender of FA? Another way out when you have a conn on your six is to use scissors with a yoyo and roll plane at same time while decreasing throttle. It can be done, need about 3 Jack on the rocks   this should cause him to overshoot you or throw him into a stall. I will then jack my throttle and nose down and then crank weps and go vertical, make sure you have about 220 on the speedo though.

Cleaner

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Offline juzz

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Evasives?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 1999, 10:16:00 AM »
Hristo - I've noticed the same things. I thought the FW190 fuel tanks were under the pilot? The Fw190 and Bf109 have pathetic down elevator effectiveness compared to every other fighter.   They can only push about -2.5G and -1.5G respectively. All the other fighters go full redout, so I can't tell about them.