Author Topic: A christian man speaks.  (Read 386 times)

Offline JBA

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A christian man speaks.
« on: October 20, 2003, 09:10:03 AM »
So to get this right. A christian man speaks in a christian church about christian beliefs, and his devisive how? But a leader of a country speaks of killing Jews and he's ignored?
      
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Media Bias:
If you thought that when a world leader called on fellow believers to crush another religion it would be big news, you'd be wrong.The leader, in this case, was Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad, who told a large gathering of global Islamic leaders that the world's 1.3 billion Muslims should unite and push to a "final victory" over the Jewish threat."The Europeans killed 6 million Jews out of 12 million, but today the Jews rule the world by proxy," said Mahathir, often described by the western media as a leading "moderate" in the Muslim world. "They get others to fight and die for them."Jews, he said, "invented socialism, communism, human rights and democracy" — sorry Mr. Prime Minister, but at least two of those things aren't so bad — to gain control of the world. His message: They have to be stopped.He didn't stop there. He further lamented the Muslim world's technological backwardness. Not because it consigns hundreds of millions of people to lives of poverty and misery. No, this backwardness is awful because it means they have inferior firepower."We have to buy our weapons from our detractors and enemies," he said. For his hateful, anti-Semitic comments, Mahathir won a standing ovation from the Muslim "leaders."A look at major U.S. newspaper and TV coverage shows, with few exceptions, Mahathir's words weren't enough to warrant mention.Contrast that with the flap over the comments by Lt. Gen. William "Jerry" Boykin. No doubt, you heard about those. They made the front page of the Los Angeles Times and were played prominently on radio and TV late last week.Boykin, you see, is a fundamentalist Christian. He's a decorated war veteran, former commander of the Army's special forces and now a deputy undersecretary of defense. He sinned by telling a church group the real enemy wasn't Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein. "The enemy is a guy called Satan." That's not all. He went on to relate that, after meeting a young Muslim warrior, "I knew that my God was a real God, and his was an idol." And he told his co-believers that terrorists are out to destroy the U.S. "because we're a Christian nation." For this, Boykin — unlike Mahathir — earned the media's scorn.A Times reporter called Boykin's comments "extreme and pernicious." NBC's Tom Brokaw termed them "divisive." ABC and CBS referred to him as a "holy warrior."It may come as a surprise to the media, but our Constitution gives everyone the right to worship the God of their choice. Or to not believe at all, if they so chose. We protect that right, and cherish it, for all people. That includes Boykin, a man who has actually fought to preserve those rights. It's funny the same media that ripped into Boykin for his words had so little to say about Mahathir's sickening diatribe. Maybe it's just a knee-jerk impulse by those in the media who hold themselves above such silly superstition to despise religion. Or maybe it's something else: The media's relativism puts them so out of touch with mainstream America that they find "extremism" in the routine religious utterances of heroes while excusing the hate and ignorance of others.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2003, 03:00:29 PM by JBA »
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Offline Siaf__csf

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A christian man speaks.
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2003, 09:51:43 AM »
The reaction was understandable: A Lt.Gen with a clearly unstable state of mind is nothing to frown upon.

We all know the hotheads of the far east - they can't be called sane by any western criteria. So it's not a news if they say stuff like that.

But when a western person in a high position spews out stuff that can only be seen delusive, it breaks the news barrier.

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2003, 10:16:45 AM »
How is he unstable? I have heard the same type of stuff in church on sundays. This is crap, he has every right to belive what he wants and it does not make him unstable.

I do not see the world out to get Christians, but in this case I think they may be right.

Offline Charon

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« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2003, 10:21:21 AM »
Quote
So to get this right. A christian man speaks in a christian church about christian beliefs, and his devisive how? But a leader of a country speaks of killing Jews and his ignored?


If you hold American democracy, and the motivations of our political and military leadership to the same standards as Malaysia (or Iran, or the Taliban) I suppose it isn't divisive. When someone like Mahathir Mohamad says something inflammatory for the 1,000th time it's not really news, especially since he's on his way out soon. When a member of the US Government promotes the "One True Religion" as a facet of American Foreign policy, it is:

Quote
...the real enemy wasn't Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein. "The enemy is a guy called Satan."


I don't believe most Americans are supporting our war on terror as a religious Crusade, but rather as a secular war on a religiously motivated movement that has attacked the United States. Boykin is fully entitled to state his beliefs, and we are fully entitled to say, "You're not the White House chaplain. You work in a secular government position (deputy undersecretary of defense) and for an American people who include fundamentalist Christians, moderate Christians, Atheists/Agnostics, Jews and even... Muslims. Just be sure, Boykin, that you remember this when you do your job."

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He went on to relate that, after meeting a young Muslim warrior, "I knew that my God was a real God, and his was an idol."


A real morale booster for any non Christians working for him in Washington, or serving in the military. For that matter, I wonder what his position is on Catholics (with all their idolatry). BTW, this guy is a perfect fit for the Wolfowitz doctrine.

Charon

Offline gofaster

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« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2003, 10:32:36 AM »
Mahathir wasn't on US soil.

The American public really doesn't pay much attention to the rhetoric overseas until the shooting starts.  Its been that way since World War 1.

Offline Siaf__csf

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« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2003, 10:37:03 AM »
Gtora2: I don't consider anyone who talks about God and Satan seriously, sane. Especially so if he claims the 'spirits talk' to him. That's asylum material bro.

Religion is a weird form of mass hysteria, collective insanity. There's nothing that proves otherwise as nobody has yet to prove the existence of supernatural, even with 2k years in christian history alone. :)

Offline MRPLUTO

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A christian man speaks.
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2003, 10:37:30 AM »
JBA, you wrote:

"...a leader of a country speaks of killing Jews and [is] ignored?"

This is totally wrong.  Prime Minister Mahathir's remarks were widely reported and denounced on both television and radio, as well as in the print media.

The "Christian" general's remarks were devisive for many reasons.  Anyone, of any religion, who proclaims they are right and everyone else is wrong is a religious bigot.  Unfortunately, most religions make this claim, thereby encouraging bigotry.  That's why I am spiritual, not religious.  I do, however, believe that we should admire the wise of all religions.

The general also characterized the current conflict as one of good Christians vs. satanic Muslims.  Rather counter-productive to the the President's diplomatic goals, I'd say.  Not to mention that it's sure to encourage even more people in the Muslim world not to trust us.

One of the greatest problems in the world today is not radical, fundamentalist Islam, but radical fundamentalism of ALL  religions.

MRPLUTO

Offline rabbidrabbit

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« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2003, 11:36:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
How is he unstable? I have heard the same type of stuff in church on sundays. This is crap, he has every right to belive what he wants and it does not make him unstable.

I do not see the world out to get Christians, but in this case I think they may be right.



Maybe you should find a better church?  Really, is that the best you can do to justify yourself?

With him, the point is he is a military commander and is responsible in that aspect for making decisions that can cause the deaths of those american citizens.  Would you want such a irrational person giving you orders when it's your life on the line?  

Furthermore, as a major unit commander, he will represent the U.S in international affairs.  Clearly few people will fell he is a rational and fair person.

Offline capt. apathy

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A christian man speaks.
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2003, 11:53:20 AM »
what did he say that was untrue?  most every thing ( I haven't verified every word) he said is in the Bible.  and as far as him being unstable, Christians are some of the most stable people I know.

as a high ranking gov't/ military official his remarks may have been inapropriat had he made them at a press confrense, but as a Christian man standing up at a church and making a statement to fellow Christians I see no problem.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2003, 12:23:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by capt. apathy

as a high ranking gov't/ military official his remarks may have been inapropriat had he made them at a press confrense, but as a Christian man standing up at a church and making a statement to fellow Christians I see no problem.



It's not good diplomacy. To speak of the war in Iraq as if it were a religious crusade will not make rebuilding job any easier nor will it make our soldiers there any safer.

A Lt. General should know better. He is a representative of the United States and the U.S. Army and he should have kept his opinions to himself (at least until after he retires).
sand

Offline DmdNexus

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A christian man speaks.
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2003, 01:08:43 PM »
>>Christians are some of the most stable people I know.

You need to get out more and meet more Christians.

They're just as crazy as everyone else.... though, they're not into suicide bombing.

But you know the Bible belt back in the 1900 to 1970s had quite a few lynchings and mob massacres against blacks.

And those were some very god fearing people who believed in love they neighbor and all that Christian stuff... well as long as he wasn't black.

And you know... some of that is still there... even if it is mumbled under breath.

Offline MRPLUTO

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« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2003, 02:54:23 PM »
Christians are some of the most stable, intelligent, and kind people I've ever met.  They have also been some of the most wacko, intolerent fools I've ever met.  

Then again, I could substitute most any ethnic or religious group for "Christian" and the statement would still be true.  I say "most any" since there certainly are some religious groups/cults that do seem to be entirely made up of weak-minded people led by selfish decievers.



Those who believe their race, religion, economic system, or nation is somehow destined by God or history to rule or dominate are blinded to their own faults and will justify all kinds of criminal behavior to make true their dream of domination.  They make life hell for anyone who disagrees or wants to live their life some other way.

There is no reasoning or compromising with them.

 MRPLUTO