Author Topic: Gay Bishop Consecrated  (Read 7883 times)

Offline Wanker

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Gay Bishop Consecrated
« on: November 03, 2003, 10:16:29 AM »
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/11/02/bishop.consecration/index.html


DURHAM, New Hampshire (CNN) -- After months of bitter infighting, the Episcopal Church consecrated Rev. Gene Robinson Sunday as bishop of the New Hampshire Diocese -- the first openly gay man to reach that level in the church hierarchy and in the Anglican community worldwide.

"You cannot imagine what an honor it is for you to have called me," Robinson preached afterward, on the verge of crying. But he also noted that many people in the church were in "great pain" because of his promotion.

Robinson's selection to be bishop set off anger among church conservatives, who believe that gay and lesbian relationships violate Christian teaching.

In a statement, the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Rev. Rowan Williams, warned that divisions created by Robinson's consecration would have "very serious consequences for the cohesion of the Anglican Communion."

However, at the ceremony, bishops lined up to congratulate Robinson. Only a handful of people demonstrated outside the University of New Hampshire sports arena where the consecration was held.

The crowd attending the ceremony at the University of New Hampshire sports arena -- about 4,000-strong, according to The Associated Press -- reacted with laughter when the state's retiring bishop Rev. Douglas Theuner said in his speech that "the disagreement over your election and consecration, Gene, has been labeled by one of your detractors as the defining battle in the war for Anglicanism's soul, the mother of all battles."

"But guess what," Theuner said in a speech interrupted often by applause. "It is not... You are no more or less a child of God like everyone else."

"What a joy it is to have you here," he said, as many bishops hugged Robinson.

Robinson's consecration was preceded by testimonials by diocesan members and other lay and religious leaders.

Before the consecration, Rev. Frank Griswold, presiding bishop of the church, asked if anyone had objections -- a traditional part of the ceremony -- and three people came forward.

Assistant Bishop David Bena of Albany, New York, spoke for 36 opposing bishops in the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Church of Canada, according to The Associated Press.

Reading from a statement, Bena said Robinson's "chosen lifestyle is incompatible with Scripture and the teaching of this church," the AP reported.

Rev. Earle Fox from the Pittsburgh Diocese also objected. "Whatever else homosexual may be, it is a behavior. We are forbidden to judge persons but are allowed to judge behavior," Fox said.

However, Griswold interrupted Fox when he started describing sexual practices he said were common in homosexual relationships. "I plead you spare us these details and come to the substance, please," Griswold told Fox.

A woman from the New Hampshire Diocese called the consecration a "cowardly act" and warned, "If this consecration goes forward, the Anglican [Communion] fabric will be torn."

"We should not go through with this terrible mistake."

Robinson received his bishop's miter from the hands of his partner Mark Andrew during the ceremony.

While he initially appeared to be holding back his tears, toward the end of his consecration Robinson, wearing his golden miter and matching gown looked up toward the public and joined the choir singing "Hallelujah" as the procession of clergymen who took part in the ceremony was leaving the stage.

Robinson will not take over as bishop of the New Hampshire Diocese until the retirement of Theuner next month.

Despite Sunday's ceremony, the statement issued of by the Archbishop of Canterbury indicated that divisions continue within the Anglican community.

"It was recognized fully at last month's meeting of Anglican leaders that the consecration of Gene Robinson as Bishop in New Hampshire would have very serious consequences for the cohesion of the Anglican Communion," the statement said.

"The divisions that are arising are a matter of deep regret; they will be all too visible in the fact that it will not be possible for Gene Robinson's ministry as a bishop to be accepted in every province in the Communion," it concluded.

Under U.S. church law, lay people and clergy in each diocese elect bishops, who are then confirmed by the national convention and consecrated. In August, the Episcopal Church USA, meeting for its General Convention in Minneapolis, voted to ordain Robinson as bishop of New Hampshire.

The Archbishop of Canterbury called a meeting afterward to discuss the action. More than 2,000 Episcopal clergy and parishioners met in Plano, Texas, in October to consider splitting from the Episcopal Church USA.

Robinson told CNN's Susan Candiotti Friday that while he doesn't believe his election will lead to a formal split in the 2.3 million-member U.S. church, there could be difficult times ahead.

Robinson has likened the current turmoil to the furor over women, who are not allowed to be priests in a vast majority of Anglican dioceses around the world.

The Anglican Communion is made up of 38 independent self-governing churches, of which the U.S. Episcopal Church is one. The Communion represents more than 70 million people in over 160 countries.

Offline FUNKED1

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Gay Bishop Consecrated
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2003, 11:56:48 AM »
Hey gay rights is great and all, but what's the point of having a minister who openly (and apparently unrepentantly) does something that goes against the Bible?  Why bother having a church if you are going to completely undermine the basis of the church?  I don't get it.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2003, 12:07:05 PM »
Sin is sin. We were always taught that no sin was any worse than any other in the eyes of god.

I'm willing to bet that the church is chock full of sinners... including the clergy.
sand

Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2003, 12:13:11 PM »
True, sin is sin.  The basic message of the New Testament is that we are all sinners and the only way to salvation is through Jesus.
But there are some pretty clear steps called out in the New Testament for dealing with sin.  Confession, repentance, etc.  Having your butt-buddy hand you the "miter" is not consistent with those.  He appears to be pretending that his sin is not a sin.

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2003, 12:16:03 PM »
Sorry Sandman, that's wrong.

While sin is sin, and the church is full of sinners, that misses the point of repentance and leadership.

The leader of a church should be a leader in every way, including in the area of repentance. Repentance means to turn away from sin, and to ask forgiveness for it. While it is impossible to avoid all sin, it is possible to avoid particular sins.

Now... the Bible is very specific about homosexuality, and it is in no way a gray area. "Abomination" is the word used. That sounds pretty bad to me, and no one has yet shown me anything to suggest God has changed His mind about it.

So... this priest is openly gay, which in effect means he is openly rebelling against God. No way around it, that is not a leader in God's church.

Finally... this does not mean gays are not as welcome in a church as any other sinner, but make no mistake about it, homosexuality is a sin from a Biblical perspective. No unrepentant sinner should ever be a leader of a church, regardless of their respective sin. Are their hypocrits out there? For sure. Doesn't change the facts, though.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2003, 12:31:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
No unrepentant sinner should ever be a leader of a church, regardless of their respective sin.



This sounds a lot like opinion... is there scripture to back it?


Here's an interesting note:

Quote
There are at least 152 million members of Christian churches in the United States. The Episcopal Church has just over 2 million members.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2003, 12:43:30 PM by Sandman »
sand

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2003, 12:59:49 PM »
Oh, there's definitely scripture for that. I'll get back to you tonight.

Offline crabofix

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« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2003, 01:29:36 PM »
This is a very, very difficult question.
The bible is not "that" clear about theese things as, Keiran says.
In old testamony Homosexuality led to the destruction of "Sodom". Nearly the whole tribe of Benjamin was whiped out after a "gay-related" event.
But then again, the Bible tell us not to eat meat from specific animals and a trillon other very detailed things.

Who messures the sin and what does the scripture say about judging others?

I´would be very carefule to do such a thing.

Offline Torque

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« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2003, 01:49:19 PM »
Looks like it's time to rewrite the manual again for the weak man's crutch. :rolleyes:

Offline Airhead

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« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2003, 02:07:03 PM »
" -- After months of bitter infighting, the Episcopal Church consecrated Rev. Gene Robinson Sunday..."

That's as far as I had to read to say- Good! It's about time we dealt with gay clergy and give them exactly what they deserve.
As far as I'm concerned we should consecrate all those catholic priests, too. They took a vow of celibacy right? What do they need testicles for?

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2003, 02:20:04 PM »
Crab, I'll apologize if you can show me where the Bible says homosexuality is okey-dokey.

The other part of your argument concerning Old Testament teaching vs. what is practiced today... not working. You are referring to the Law, and Jesus's sacrifice suprecedes the Law. If you're a Christian, and Anglicans are supposed to be, you cannot use that argument.

Jesus said He was not here to change a single word of His Father's teachings- He was here to fulfill it. The intent of the Law was to show man cannot make himself perfect. Jesus's ascension and His superceding the Law does not mean God changed His mind about everything. So, suggesting that since the Law was superceded means nothing God called bad prior to that is bad is untrue.

Offline Frogm4n

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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2003, 02:20:43 PM »
haha you said homo

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2003, 02:20:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Torque
Looks like it's time to rewrite the manual again for the weak man's crutch. :rolleyes:


That, Torque, is exactly why the Anglican church keeps getting in trouble. They are doing precisely that.

Offline crabofix

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« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2003, 02:58:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
Crab, I'll apologize if you can show me where the Bible says homosexuality is okey-dokey.


Please Keiran, I didnt say it said it was Okey-Dokey. I said that the new testamony is not very clear about theese things. In the Old testamony, Citys where destructed and tribes nearly whiped out because of "Homosexual related" behavior.

Talking about the Law, yes, it is correct that every single word in the law is valid. But according to the law we will be doomed for ethernalty. We are bought from the law, by the sacrifies "curse opon the man who gets hung upon a stick". ( I dont have the King James bible, so please bare with the translation)
I am only saying, it is easy to be quick to judge what is right and what is wrong, I can not, because I am not in the position to do so.

But what are you really talking about? I had pokchops today, I might be in real trouble, cause they tasted very good and I dont repeant a second that I had em.

I know about the Peter on the roof stuff and how all food is decleared "clean" but read thoose lines a couple of times, carefully and you might get an answer or 2

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2003, 03:01:20 PM »
Quote
DURHAM, New Hampshire (CNN) -- After months of bitter infighting, the Episcopal Church consecrated Rev. Gene Robinson Sunday as bishop of the New Hampshire Diocese -- the first openly gay man to reach that level in the church hierarchy and in the Anglican community worldwide.


Not that there's anything wrong with that....
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