Author Topic: NEXT AH Scenario - RURH  (Read 7089 times)

Offline ravells

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« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2003, 04:52:07 AM »
I have voted A, but I also like the sound of having 'mini frames' during the week.  Would it be possible to have some of the mini frames at Euro friendly times?

cheers

Ravs
« Last Edit: November 10, 2003, 06:26:48 AM by ravells »

Offline artik

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« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2003, 01:46:30 PM »
Can you give more ditales - at least high level design:
[list=1]
  • Historical introduction
  • The plane set
  • Life rules - multiple or single or something other
  • Some outstanding new ideas as I understand night fights will be.
  • Other possible feathers - not detalised yet.


I think this scenario can bring a lot of players. Personaly the best scenario I had participated in was Nieman (of course Kadesh is better becuse it is my design :D ). It get great numbers - 160(!) for VVS and 100 for LW. At least that I could see in logs. I think this campaign - not pacific theatre (like Okinava, Guadalcanal, Midway) with later war planeset can bring good numbers. It is scenario more siutable for Euro players than Pcaific that is well known for US players.
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Offline Batz

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« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2003, 02:26:07 PM »
if the event is '43 we can guess

Allies:

B-17G ... 6-43
P-47D-11 ... 3-43 (sub for earler ds; d11 service 1-44)
P-51B ... 12-43 ? (kinda late I would think)

Lancaster III ... 3-42 (the ah lanc has 2 x 50 in the tail which means its a '44 variant)
 
Mosquito Mk VI ... 7-43  (nightfighter)


Bf 109G-6 ... 2-43
Fw 190A-5 ... 3-43 (we have no a6)
Bf 110G-2 ... 5-42 (day/night fighter)

Maybe the b26. The typhie and the spit 9 don't have a roll that I can tell. I dont see a need for the boston or the a20g.

If the rules are to bomb the ruhr industry all the allies need is the large bombers (lanc & 17). Escorts (p47d11 maybe last frame with p51bs). A nightfighter (mossie).

The axis need a nightfighter (110g) an intercepter (g6) and bomber killers (a5).

That would be my guess anyway.

Offline bikekil

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« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2003, 05:40:29 PM »
hmmm... really good young Jedi! really good ;)

we will fill you with details soon :)

Offline 68KO

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« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2003, 07:07:49 AM »
I think you should try maybe back to back runs on weekends at different times so our euro friends can play to. maybe a saturday after dinner time in US witch would be late night for euro and a Sunday early for US and it would be after dinner for euro? Or the other way around .If we run on weekdays it will cut the numbers with our euro friends because they have to goto work, and I think that will hurt our numbers. But i like the 2 day thing . I hate waiting a week for the next frame . If you run 2 days a week maybe squads will make it a squad thing and use it as a squad night.:D
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Offline Rompa

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« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2003, 12:18:34 PM »
What about the 2 frames /day that we tryied earlier.
So the scenario has first frame 1 for 2h and then a 30min break or so before frame 2 starts.

Offline Batz

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« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2003, 01:50:30 PM »
We did that with the BoB scenario. I was axis Co and I wouldnít want the Ruhr command staffs to have to go through it. It ends up "sand lot" because there's no time for planning in between frames.

It is not so bad on the "defenders" (raf in BoB; lw in Ruhr) but attackers need to be able to co-ordinate their plans. 30 min or an hour between frames is not enough time to evaluate the previous frame and come up with a decent plan.

We also tried Sat and Sun frames but Sun is NFL time in the US. Sat is a "work at home day" for quite a few.

Weekday frames exclude many non-US players.

Scenario numbers havenít been as high as expected over the past few events. I donít think that adding a weekday event will help anything. If anything you may split the numbers that we currently get in the Saturday frames. The question is how many more folks will fly if you add weekday frames? Will weekday frames ensure a high player count per frame? Or will we end up with more players overall but less players in each frame?

Then you have to decide the overall impact of the "extra" frames will have on "scoring". Itís hardly fair to have 1 frame where only 30 guys show up impact the overall outcome.

Itís my opinion that The Saturday frames reach more folks per frame. We may get more folks in the event if stretched over 7 frames and weekdays. But if you end up with less players per frame then nothing much was accomplished.

From my experience most events are designed around a given number of players. At times when the numbers are low in a frame it has a real impact not only on the planning but fun level. (Some guys show up and out of their flight of 10 3 show up etc Ö)

Anyway my 2 cents

Offline blackwitch

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« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2003, 02:45:21 PM »
Is there a chance the USAAF bombers could have more "general" targets rather than individual buildings?

I mention this as, IMHO, most pilots aren't completely up to high accuracy bombing... and as we all know even those brave chaps during the war would drop when the formation leader dropped.

perhaps we could try either counting the number of craters at an enemy target or even just say a percentage of bombers have to drop on the airfield/city etc.

Just tryin to keep it "playable/doable for the bomber pilots, if the bomber pilot attendance drops it will effect the "feel" of the scenario.

CM team no serious criticism intended at all/

Offline blackwitch

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« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2003, 03:00:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Batz
if the event is '43 we can guess

Allies:

P-51B ... 12-43 ? (kinda late I would think)


That would be my guess anyway.



That's right fella, NO P51's were gonna be around for another 6 months at least, and then not in substantial numbers for a while after that, as for the Spit 9, with a DT it's range wasn't that short of a P47D at that time.

In mid '43 the T'bolts of the 56Th FG were able to stay aloft for 2 hours and 12 mins, I must dig out a picture I have of the ranges of the fighters overlaid on a map of europe.

IMHO I reckon it should be T'Bolts mostly in the scenario

Offline Batz

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« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2003, 03:05:51 PM »
Hiya Witch :),

I 100% agree with you. When designing an event that has "bombers" as a crucial part the focus should be on area bombing. Maybe if and when HT gets the ai done for AH2:ToD he will allow the cms to use the ai script to supplement bomber numbers in the events. Bombers aren't a big draw especially with the difficulty some folks have with the calibration.

If targets are laid out with  "area" bombing (like in big week) in mind we may see bomber numbers increase. This also could mean tighter formations.

For instance each bomber group may have 1 or 2 guys who are really proficient with the calibration. If the rest of his flight flies tight they can drop "on lead". Of course they would need to practice to avoid "creep back" where the follow up bombers sequentially drop short. But it adds an element of immersion.

There are other aircraft in the AH plane set  better utilized for pinpoint bombing. Bombers should fly high (not to high :p), in formation and area bomb their targets. This allows better escort techniques and the bombers are better able to defend themselves. With individual buildings formations get spread out as individual pilots attempt to get a line and calibrate for their specific building. Itís during these times that the bombers are easily shot down.

With better targets, better survivability and more immersion we may be able to get more bomber guys involved in scenarios.

The types of targets and their lay out are important.

ps are you gonna Co this one? We need a tie breaker :p

Just kidding! I have been retired any way

About the spits and typh I have np with them being included but could they fly all the way to the Ruhr Valley?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2003, 03:08:48 PM by Batz »

Offline Easyscor

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« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2003, 03:51:56 PM »
blackwitch, Batz,

Come on guys, that's not the way to go.  It reminds me a an event recently when the CM said so long as the bombs hit anywhere on the tile they would be counted.  We proved targets can be hit in Guadalcanal and the biggest problem I see is making a map with really big City or Factory targets so there is something left to bomb after the lead formations pass over.  A City size tile can be wiped clean twice over with only 4 B-17 formations.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2003, 03:54:32 PM by Easyscor »
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Offline Batz

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« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2003, 04:45:47 PM »
No what I mean is targets like in Big Week and like Guadalcanal.

By area bombing I mean like drop your load on a grouping of various buildings as opposed to like in BoB where you had to bomb the red shed 2 trees down from the green truck. :)

If you have the Big Week map take a look at the targets. A factory complex is a collection of various building and structures. What I mean is they need to be large enough and dense enough to make "strategic bombing" more realistic then "kill that hanger".

The scoring would be like if XX% of the buildings are destroyed = XX% reduction in that factory complex's production etc.

I know you guys can hit anything but unfortunately folks like you are hard to find. :)

You arent just dropping bombs on an area of land but an area of structures that represent a single target.

Offline jordi

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« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2003, 05:20:15 PM »
Think CEP for the Bombers.

Think Bomber groups competing to see who gets the better resutls.

Think of Escort groups whos goal is to get as many bombers HOME with 10 guys ALIVE in each bomber as possible.

Think of the LW trying to live and stay alive for the next mission.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2003, 05:23:34 PM by jordi »
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Offline Batz

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« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2003, 07:31:52 PM »
Quote
Think CEP for the Bombers.


What is CEP?

Offline Sikboy

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« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2003, 09:01:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Batz
What is CEP?


Circular Error Probable

-Sik
« Last Edit: November 11, 2003, 09:03:55 PM by Sikboy »
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.