Author Topic: Drugs kill!  (Read 8355 times)

Offline kappa

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« Reply #60 on: November 21, 2003, 11:29:36 AM »
lol Mane.. before any bellybutton kissing goes toward Ripper29, ask him if it looks like a pig's ass... 8)

k
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Offline mora

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« Reply #61 on: November 21, 2003, 11:34:59 AM »
Well I used the term "pot" which I believe is used to describe cannabis products for recreational use. It is so easy to produce that if it would be legal you couldn't really make any profits from it, unlike when it's illegal. I didn't consider hemp industry which could indeed be a big source of income. As I replied above it seems to be legal in some states.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #62 on: November 21, 2003, 11:40:50 AM »
Certainly the police must exercise restraint and abide by the law. Those that hate or think we don't need police are idiots. Our society would collapse into chaos without police in no time at all.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #63 on: November 21, 2003, 02:00:11 PM »
AKIron: Those that hate or think we don't need police are idiots.
 Our society would collapse into chaos without police in no time at all.


 Those who think that only government can provide protection - or any other service - or do it better than free enterprise private market, are communists.

 I have to agree with you though, that our society which has been long corrupted by socilalsm, would (temprarily) collapse in chaos if the government programs were suddenly terminated. Just like Soviet Union society collapsed in chaos for a while when the socialist command structure was demolished.

 But you make it sound as if such collapse is a bad thing. It's not. It's just a symptom of recovery, like a hangover after drinking alcohol.
 The damage is not from hangover but from alcohol and if the drinking (or socialist policies) are continued in fear of hangover, the collapse would come anyway but much harder.

 American people used to live with much less police and much less violence or crime than we have now - like in the "Wild" West.

 miko

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #64 on: November 21, 2003, 02:06:19 PM »
After the societal collapse Kevin Costner could deliver the mail and we could rebuild.
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Offline miko2d

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« Reply #65 on: November 21, 2003, 02:30:20 PM »
I wish Kevin is ready to intervene. Comrade AKIron skipped few pages in his study of Leninism. Otherwise he could have warned us about much more urgent disaster coming.

 You see - it's a common knowlege (among communists, at least) that only government can provide the production and distribution of food. If you leave it to the free market capitalism, we would all die of starvation in a few weeks.

 miko

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #66 on: November 21, 2003, 02:33:18 PM »
Ever heard of Safeway or Piggly Wiggly?  They are capitalist food distributors.
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Offline gofaster

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« Reply #67 on: November 21, 2003, 02:34:36 PM »
There are already private security forces in place.  Just ask any major commercial tenant.  They're always hiring security guards.  I sure wouldn't want Pinkerton's Finest to be responsible for running an undercover drug sting operation.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #68 on: November 21, 2003, 02:45:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
I wish Kevin is ready to intervene. Comrade AKIron skipped few pages in his study of Leninism. Otherwise he could have warned us about much more urgent disaster coming.

 You see - it's a common knowlege (among communists, at least) that only government can provide the production and distribution of food. If you leave it to the free market capitalism, we would all die of starvation in a few weeks.

 miko


Are you seriously advocating we do away with our police? Perhaps in your past experience police did little more than oppress and subjugate but in our society they serve the people. They do this through enforcing our laws. If the laws are oppresive then change them with your vote or rise up and through violence change the government if you believe it is not representative.

Or, go live somewhere else. You do have that freedom in America, unlike in your country of origin until recent years. Hmmmm, why did you come to America?
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline -Concho-

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« Reply #69 on: November 21, 2003, 03:02:05 PM »
Miko who would regulate your private police force and to whom whould they answer?   What laws would they be able to enforce?  I can see no other way for adequate enforcement of the laws set forth by the people other than a govermental agency, otherwise you get several small factions with no real or common goal other than personal profit.  I also don't see where it would benefit anyone but the wealthy.

You seem to be really hung up on pot smokers and seat belt violators.  How else are we supposed to find these other violent criminals?  We make a traffic contact, conduct an interview (what some people call being harrased), and in a very short ammount of time try to determine if there is something else going on.  Every now and again you'll find a dead body in a trunk or a kidnapped child or more likely a load of narcotics.  The bottom line is that it all has to start some where.  If I can find someone with out a seat belt I going to stop them and see whats going on.

You do control your police force through votes.  Police officers answer to thier Chief who inturn answer to the elcted city council.  If you feel that your vote does not matter that is a totally different problem all together.  The abilty to change is one of the foundations of this country, not just a slogan.

I am amazed that you feel like your tax dollars are extortion money for police.  That is one of the most aburd things I have ever heard.  

It's obvious that you have a negitive view of police and I'm sure in your mind you have a good reason for it.  It seems to me though you would not be happy unless you lived on a small island where you had total control.  

We will still be there for you no matter what your opinion is.

Offline -Concho-

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« Reply #70 on: November 21, 2003, 03:03:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
Are you seriously advocating we do away with our police? Perhaps in your past experience police did little more than oppress and subjugate but in our society they serve the people. They do this through enforcing our laws. If the laws are oppresive then change them with your vote or rise up and through violence change the government if you believe it is not representative.

Or, go live somewhere else. You do have that freedom in America, unlike in your country of origin until recent years. Hmmmm, why did you come to America?


well said Iron.

Offline Dune

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« Reply #71 on: November 21, 2003, 03:12:03 PM »
Police agencies do not provide protection.  You want 'round the clock protection?  Hire bodyguards.  

They provide deterrence.  And an agency to investigate violations of the state's laws.  

Laws of the land are determined by voters through their representatives.  The state then has the obligation to enforce these laws.  When the codes/laws are broken, it is the state's job to investigate the violation, determine who broke the law and prosecute them.  If indeed they are guilty, it is up to the state to punnish them.  I think it's somewhat remarkable that the state allows the average citizen to tell them who is guilty by way of jury.

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #72 on: November 21, 2003, 03:32:35 PM »
AKIron: Are you seriously advocating we do away with our police?

 I am seriously advocating doing away with any socialist institutions in favor of free-market solutions. That means state-run police, education, retirement, healthcare, etc.

Perhaps in your past experience police did little more than oppress and subjugate but in our society they serve the people.

 That's just rhetoric. Soviet policemen were also serving the people and protecting us from criminals.

Or, go live somewhere else. You do have that freedom in America, unlike in your country of origin until recent years.

 I do have freedoms in some areas, not in others. I do not argue that less communism is better than more communism.
 I disagree with you that any communism is necessary.

Hmmmm, why did you come to America?

 To have less communisn, of course! I did not know it would have so many supporters here. :)


-Concho-: Miko who would regulate your private police force and to whom whould they answer?

 There are whole books on the subject. We have plenty of crucial services provided by private market. They are "regulated" by customers though competition and can be sertified or licensed by existing or new private accreditation institutions or even by the government.

You seem to be really hung up on pot smokers and seat belt violators.

 It costs me a lot of money to have them harassed. And those are only two of many activities that have nothing to do with my protection.

You do control your police force through votes.

 And jews in Germany controlled theirs through their votes, so they must have been ok, right?
 The majority can vote to force me do anything they want, so what? Even if I join the majority party, my vote would be 1/2000000 of the total, hardly an influence. When I buy something from a private supplier, my every vote is unanimous and decisive. That's influence.

I am amazed that you feel like your tax dollars are extortion money for police.

 If I do not pay them - because I feel no need of the services offered in return, the armen people would break into my house, take away my property, kidnap me or kill me if I resist. That's pretty much what I call extortion.
 My roofer cannot do that to force me to pay for his fixing a roof somewhere else.

It's obvious that you have a negitive view of police

 Not really. I would gladly have police - maybe even the same individuals or better ones, if it was provided in a free market competition, not in a socialist coercive way.

 I need food more than I need police and I am fine with private supply. Same with transport, healtcare and many others.

It seems to me though you would not be happy unless you lived on a small island where you had total control.

 Total control over my life and my property.
 Basically, give me the America of the Founding Fathers (minus slavery, of course) and I will be a happy camper! :)\


Dune: it's somewhat remarkable that that the state allows the average citizen to tell them who is guilty by way of jury...

 The state allows? It seems you believe that the state is superior to the individual. For your information this is supposed to be a free country where the state serves the people, not the other way around.

 miko

Offline Dune

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« Reply #73 on: November 21, 2003, 03:46:35 PM »
Which, last time I checked, was how it worked.  Perhaps allows was not the best term, but does not change my point.

However, perhaps I've seen what you're after.  A type of pure capitalistic state where if you don't have the money to pay for it, you don't get it.  And if you are required to pay for anything through taxes, that thing is immediately labeled as communism.  Interesting POV.  Not really rational, but interesting nonetheless.

Offline -Concho-

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« Reply #74 on: November 21, 2003, 03:55:12 PM »
simply amazing miko.  I guess it takes all kinds to make this world go round.

Every thing that you said provides for the rich.  When you hire you private police and do away with any kind of state sponsored police force whko will protect the poor and under privileged?

I saw your post about dangerous jobs.  I am still curious to know what you do.  

Every night I strap on a gun and a bullet proof vest, kiss my kid on the head and tell her good night, go out on the Interstate and try to do a good job.  I'm reminded everytime I go to our headquaters in Austin of how deadly thing can get everytime I walk down the hall that has the pictures of the 77 highway patrolmen that have died in the line of duty.  I stop change flats on the traffic side of peoples cars so they don't get hit.  I've crawled into a burning car and drug a guy out, I've swam though a flooded draw to help  people that were trapped in a truck that was being washed away.   I don't ask for praise or recognition.  All I ask for is a paycheck and a little respect.  Don't tell me I don't have a dangerous job till you've walked a mile in my boots.