OSTIE "dispersion"

[gijeff]

Salute Gents,

    Correct me if I am wrong gents but I believe HTC "dispersed" the ostie's cannon because people were using external views to kill stuff way too far away.  Now there are no external views on GV's so this is impossible but the "dispersion" has been left in.  It is also all but impossible to HIT anything with the Ostie due to this "dispersion".  I just did a sortie defending a vehicle base, a P38 (BIG target imho) did THREE passes on me dead on, straight at me.  I fired at him continuously when he did these passes and didn't get ONE SINGLE HIT.  At one point he FILLED MY SIGHT, how the hell could I miss?  I couldn't even SEE anything but the bloody plane!  If I'da had a big stick I couldda poked a hole in his fuselage as he overflew me for crying out loud.  But my 37mm anti aircraft gun (ha!) shot over under and to either side of a HUGE P38 flying on the deck straight at me.  What the hell point is there to have an anti aircraft platform that can't even defend itself, let alone the area around it?  IMHO HTC can remove the ostie from the game, it is nothing more than a light tank with a small gun for engaging ground targets, and that not well, due to the spread.  There isn't any use for it in it's present state.  Hell, I get more air kills in a panzer these days, at least with .50 you can HIT something.  If the real ostwind had performance like this, the inventor wouldda been SHOT by the German High Command for selling them such a TURD.  

Jeff Waite
aka GIJeff

[Dead Man Flying]

The Ostwind has 8238 kills and has been killed 3889 times this tour.

It sure doesn't seem like the Ostwind has too much difficulty killing stuff.

-- Todd/DMF

[CyranoAH]

The goal of the dispersion is clear IMO: make it a defensive weapon, not a base pounder. With its previous accuracy, you could easily destroy up to 3-4 hangars from 2k away AND shoot down some planes as well.

Now it's more an AA weapon than before... and now it's even easier to kill airplanes even if you are not a good marksman.

Think of it as a VERY powerful shotgun  

Daniel, aka Cyrano

[gijeff]

Salute Gents,

     Cyrano, with the ostie's slow rate of fire, it ain't nearly a shotgun, with one round going high, one going low, one going left....well by now the bloody plane has passed you by or destroyed you.  I can see not allowing too much accuracy but with a plane on a straight approach vector (easy target) three passes in a row in a large plane (P38) with no hits whatsoever?  That is bloody useless.  

Jeff Waite
aka GIJeff

[Greg 'wmutt' Cook]

I don't know, they seem to blow me up pretty well still.  I know youre not going to like this, but could it be connection related?

[GRUNHERZ]

Gee Its called recoil, neat idea huh?

You dont just fire 37mm cannon on full auto and expect the damn thing to put every shot in the same place every time.  Plus its mounted on a PzIV chassis, PZIV leaf-spring suspension was kind rough even by WW2 standards, and the recoil forces would shake the thing and springs would then shake the firing platform and so on.  If anything the osti should be made almost useless in aim if its moving over real terrain as the choppy ride would shake the gunsight and gun so much as to make them useless.

[gijeff]

Salute Gents,

     Doubt it wmutt, I am on cable.  Typically have 180ms or less ping to HTC and little variance.

Jeff Waite
aka GIJeff

[GRUNHERZ]

Gee Its called recoil, neat idea huh?

You dont just fire 37mm cannon on full auto and expect the damn thing to put every shot in the same place every time.  Plus its mounted on a PzIV chassis, PZIV leaf-spring suspension was kind rough even by WW2 standards, and the recoil forces would shake the thing and springs would then shake the firing platform and so on.  If anything the osti should be made almost useless in aim if its moving over real terrain as the choppy ride would shake the gunsight and gun so much as to make them useless.

[gijeff]

Salute Gents,

     Grunhertz, I shot 105mm guns on tank chasis in the army and they really don't move much.  The 37mm gun was fitted to a full blown TANK chasis, if anything the chasis is OVERDONE, it certainly is heavy enough to be back in place before the next round of a slow and light 37mm cannon is fired.  Sights are affixed to the GUN, not the chasis, any movement of the gun is mirrored by the sights and recoil absorbtion equippment takes care of most of the recoil anyway.  Ever hear of a howitzer?  Know the difference between a 105mm howitzer and a 105mm cannon?  Same gun, different recoil system.  Any gun that doesn't shoot to point of aim every time is useless.  The designers would either lower the rate of fire so the recoil was absorbed before the next shot or beef up the recoil system.  As far as moving over terrain, I agree, without the modern hydraulic stabilization systems shooting on the move is a VERY chancy thing, but I was parked for all three of the passes of the P38.  Before they "dispersed" the ostie it was effective and accurate, now it is a matter of luck to hit an EASY target.  I ain't luke skywalker, and I don't wanna use the "Force".  If I put my sights on something and can't hit it, the gun is useless to me.  It is already difficult enough to hit airborne targets with slow rate of fire weapons, lag issues, and machine guns that detrack you with a few rounds, it doesn't need to be made more difficult.  In real life any pilot who got three head on passes on a AAA emplacement would be the luckiest man alive.  Consider, a target headed right for you simply grows in your sights, no movement laterally or vertically.  You almost can't MISS the bloody thing.

Jeff Waite
aka GIJeff

[ 06-25-2001: Message edited by: gijeff ]

[Ghosth]

If the issue was recoil, at least the first shot out of the barrel would be on target every time correct?

Fact of the matter is the osty currently throws rounds all over the place.

Yes perhaps it makes it harder to kill hangesrs with it. Perhaps it makes it easier for a new guy to get a kill.

But for those of us who learned the osty and how to hit with it. It's discourageing to say the least.

That being said, I can accept this as a gameplay issue & move on so hold the flames please.

[GRUNHERZ]

Yes the first shot is always "on target" with "on target" being where you point it. The next shot would be off by a bit and so on.

[gijeff]

Salute Gents,

     Heya Ghosth, I sure wish the first round was on target, but it shoots randomly just like all the others.  I have tried holding fire till I couldn't miss with the first round, it still makes a .45 degree turn to the left or some other direction after leaving the barrel.  Maybe some guys are getting really lucky with the ostie after firing at someone all bloody day.  I never used to use half the ammo in an ostie without getting some kills.  Now I am lucky to hit a bloody hangar while sitting on the base, let alone a plane.  Anyone who has seen me in osties and tanks knows I am a damned good shot, the weapon simply isn't doing the job.  As I said, as far as I am concerned they can take it outta the game, I won't be using it till they fix it.  Shame of it is I usta love the ostie.

Jeff Waite
aka GIJeff

[Kingonads]

Gee  GIjeff,

        I could of swore U were gripeing about this before and I will tell U the same thing that I said before and that is that the 37mm auto matic cannon is a acurate first shot weapon like all AA guns but after the first shot it will begin to move off target very much like my beloved Blazer Bradley, now your late great 105mm was not a autocannon. I will tell U from personal experence that it is a difficult task to hit a moving ground target (30-40mph) with a 25mm at 450 rpm what makes U think that U can hit a plane moving at 200-400mph with every round after the first one.  I know U where a tanker and all that rott but U were not a Anti-Aircraft gunner, I have I will not say that I am a expert on the subject but I will say that I am probly the closest thing U got in this post.  With 3 years experience in the M2 Blazer Bradley AA track.  If U want to hit every round on target I suggest U leave the ostie to someone who apreciates its scatter pattern and drive a M16 with its quad .50's.   I know U R going to say that U cant find any info on the Blazer and I am full of it but I also know that it is in Jane reconition guide to modern armored fighting vehicles.  Its not a new track its just a vareint off a old tried and true-blue amercan design. <S>

                           Hooaah.
                           Hodo  

[rosco-]

I think htc should model barrel overheating, projectiles getting stuck in the barrel and the gun exploding and killing the operator.  

PS: im serious. I used to think adding the ostwind into AH was a  big mistake. I hated the endlessly spawning dweeb mobiles. Now I hardly ever see one, and im OK with that.

[gijeff]

Salute Gents,

Klingonads, boy you sure like to borrow trouble that wasn't necessarily coming your way, doncha?  I never said there was no such thing as a blazer bradley, just said I couldn't find one anywhere in Janes.  

I have been using osties for defense since they came out in AH and they used to be somewhat effective, I KNOW how difficult it is to hit a target moving at the speeds they do in AH, I usta do it all the time.  What I don't understand is how you can do it with a weapon that won't shoot to the same point twice in a row, hell even after five rounds no two go to the same place.  Even the first round of the ostie at present doesn't go to point of aim, so your assertion that it is accurate to real life is incorrect.  The spread on the weapon at present makes it so difficult to hit the easiest targets (those coming straight at you to strafe you) that you cannot even hit THOSE unless you are very lucky.  I said it before and I will say it again, a P38 is a bloody BIG target when it is coming right at you.  If you cannot hit it even when it damned well fills your sights then the gun on the ostie is useless.  You can use an entire ammo load with it at present and not hit a single air target.  The only way I could have missed a P38 FILLING MY SIGHTS is if the bloody gun was shooting backwards.  

I used to get hits on planes straffing out to 2k with the gun shooting to point of aim (with a little luck), now I have missed them regularly at 300.  You can noise all you want about how this is accurate, I will tell you again, if anyone submitted such a turd to the defense department they'd be drawn and quartered.  The gun has too slow a rate of fire for any spread to be of any use except against ground targets.  I got news for you guys, my PAINTBALL gun, with no bloody rifling whatsoever, which shoots .68 caliber spherical paintballs (which are NOT perfect spheres btw) at 300fps or SLOWER shoots to point of aim more or less out to 75 yards.  You would have me believe that a slow firing 37mm RIFLED gun on a full blown MAIN BATTLE TANK chasis has so much recoil that it cannot do the same?  BAH!  Don't let the blonde hair fool you Klingonads, I only LOOK this stupid.  And just what POSSIBLE use would an AAA platform be if only the first round were able to come anywhere near the target?  If the designers knew this why make the weapon have anywhere near a high rate of fire, they would make it a single shot weapon.  

I also never said I should be able to hit a plane with every round, I just think I ought to hit it with ONE if it is coming right at me three times in a row.  I suspect if you were on your "beloved blazer bradley" and a helicopter or prop plane were able to strafe you with impunity three times at 200-300mph you would get the hell off the "beloved blazer bradley" and find yourself a foxhole to hide in, or you would be DEAD.  

Jeff Waite
aka GIJeff