Author Topic: Looking for a motherboard? Read this first..  (Read 1566 times)

Offline WhiteHawk

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« on: November 24, 2003, 10:33:06 AM »
Sorry, this is probably not the place to put an editorial comment, but for you new builders or veterans, this may be worth reading,
In my own situation, the motherboard works perfectly fine but it is defective if I were to try to push the envelope of its performance.  I have been following the situation closely, wondering (expecting) to get a brand new Mobo in the mail, overnight shipped free, but htis is where it standes now......

Abit recently put on the market a sizzling new mobo advertised and designed to push hardware to the limit, and priced for that as well.  it became clear very soon that there was a big problem with the mobo, that seriously throttled its capabilites.  I am new to this tech sht but, in a nutshell, as you crank up the clock on CPU, it becomes necesssary to up the voltage for certain pieces of hardware, CPU and RAM, and maybe some other stuff, i dunno.
  but as one tries to up the DRAM voltage past 2.8V, it fluctuates and creates serious unstability resulting in lockups, CTD's and worse yet, corruption of data.

ABIT method for handling the situation...

1.  Deny that there is a problem.
2.  When a landslide of evidence scours  (Abits) face till it is raw and bleeding, admit that thier may be a problem with 1 or 2 baords.
3.  When every owner of this board lines up to testify that thier board is also defective, admit that there is problem with the board, but only if it is pushed to its limits, which shouldnt  be done anyway.
4.  When the owners point out that the board cost 2x as much as a similar board because it was advertised to be able to push the performance envelope of the hardware...4.  test the board, which should have been done prior to step 1.
5.  Admit the board is defective and implement the solution.
6.  The solution choices  1) send the board back to abit to have them do the 'hastily implemented and untested for possible side-effects' modification.   This would require an unknown period of time without the motherboard, which apparently is no skin off of abits nose.  Apparently there would be no effort to make sure that my mobo was mod'd and sent back to me, so I could get somebody elses mobo post mod..2) Do the modification yourself while voiding your warranty at the same time.  This requires removing a small capacitor from the motherboard with a solder iron and some tweezers.  
:eek: :eek: :rofl
I simply cannot believe a company would put thier fukup squarely on my shoulders like that:mad: :mad:
7.  Lock the thread that contains the malcontents beetching and moaning.
:eek: :mad:
8.  Start work on the IC7-MAX4, and just like the 'new improved tide' commercials, compare it to the IC7-MAX3.  Put the sparkly-warkly clean mobo next to the cruddy POS and hope people dont notice that the 'old' tide must have been some useless sht.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2003, 10:38:25 AM by WhiteHawk »

Offline bloom25

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« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2003, 12:14:34 PM »
I stopped using Abit boards a while back (about 2 years ago) because they had problems with defective capacitors that would fail after just a few months use.

Now Abit boards are manufactured by ECS, a company not exactly known for quality.

Offline mold

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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2003, 12:47:19 PM »
Yes, agreed.  Let me add one more step to Abit's "QA Process":

6.5: Forget to fix more than half the problem.  Ignore the existence of that part of the problem, and hope no one notices.  Send back a bunch of "fixed" boards that are effectively just as useless as the originals.

Offline 214thCavalier

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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2003, 01:19:31 PM »
To be clear Abit have not suggested you do the mod yourself at all, they want you to RMA the board if its a problem, which it is not for all because some guys are getting amazing overclocks with standard board.

The mod was posted by a guy who was beta testing the mod for Abit, because some said they would not want to RMA but do it themselves which i may well do.

There is also the cross ship method so you dont have any downtime.

28-10-03 AbitPR said he would look into the problem, my guess is once they were sure it was more than a handful at fault.
Within a month they know what the problem is and announce they will RMA all affected boards worldwide.

Should it have been a problem in the first place ?

No

Would you like to check and see how many other motherboard manufacturers have issued a general worldwide RMA for an overclocking issue ?

No i guess not.

Offline mold

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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2003, 02:10:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 214thCavalier
Would you like to check and see how many other motherboard manufacturers have issued a general worldwide RMA for an overclocking issue ?


Well, first of all, this is not an overclocking issue.  It is a question of proper operation of Vdimm as the board is specified to do.  That's all.  If it was just a luck-of-the-draw overclocking issue, users would not expect a fix and Abit would not deliver one.

And, BTW, the problem hasn't been fixed yet.

Offline mrblack

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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2003, 02:19:49 PM »
I tell ya Im really sold on the asus p4p800 deluxe
$129.00 at http://www.newegg.com
I am having really good results with this board.

Offline 214thCavalier

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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2003, 02:29:18 PM »
Mold given that anybody who wants to run a 2.8 and above memory voltage is therefore overclocking then it is an overclocking issue.

However i did say


Quote
Should it have been a problem in the first place ?
No


So my point stands no other manufacturer has issued a general RMA to fix an Issue (that should not have been there) for a feature only used for overclocking.

Offline mold

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« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2003, 02:48:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 214thCavalier
Mold given that anybody who wants to run a 2.8 and above memory voltage is therefore overclocking then it is an overclocking issue.

...

So my point stands no other manufacturer has issued a general RMA to fix an Issue (that should not have been there) for a feature only used for overclocking.


Well, here's an analogy.  Ford releases the Mustang Max3, and makes the claim that the wheels don't fall off above 75MPH.  However, Ford makes no guarantees that the car's engine is capable of propelling the car to 75 MPH.  So some people put a turbo into the car, and find that the wheels fall ofdf at 80 MPH.  Ford issues a recall--which is fine, but should we be surprised?

Furthermore, say Ford then provides a fix where the wheels stay on, but the tires still fall off at 80.  Is that OK?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2003, 02:59:11 PM by mold »

Offline Roscoroo

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« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2003, 02:57:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bloom25
I stopped using Abit boards a while back (about 2 years ago) because they had problems with defective capacitors that would fail after just a few months use.

Now Abit boards are manufactured by ECS, a company not exactly known for quality.


I didnt know ECS was making Abit boards ... hmmm (I'll have to look into this. Do you have a Web site reference to this Bloom ? )

Now I my self cant knock the ECS K7S5A mainboard at all ive build a total of 7 pc's using this mainboard with cpu's from 750 t birds on up to 2400+ athlons (Along with using clocking programs on one of them) they are all very stable pc's

I've always bought my ECS boards at the same little hole in the wall pc store , I have read were guys have had problems with them from other outlets, New Egg ussually
Roscoroo ,
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Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2003, 02:57:12 PM »
Only mobo I ever RMAed was an Abit.

Offline Roscoroo

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« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2003, 03:25:00 PM »
Bloom I found it ... I knew they were making shuttles,,, but back thru the old news in 2002 they mentioned that they also make Abits ..

"Motherboard manufacturers like ABIT and Shuttle are already outsourcing a good deal of their motherboards to ECS for manufacture, and it's no wonder; ECS is simply the master of low-cost production"

A tour of the ECS manufaturing site  this was done in oct 2003 and its a interesting read about how they manufature
« Last Edit: November 24, 2003, 03:43:48 PM by Roscoroo »
Roscoroo ,
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Offline WhiteHawk

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« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2003, 05:13:46 PM »
well..i dont know if cheap production was the problem here.  maybe Bloom25 can shed some light.
  They (someone claiming to be associated with abit) ask me to remove a Cpacitor, not replace it.  I would assume enginerring and quality assurance are to blame.
  They still have not answered my emails with a human.  This is frustrating.
  I bought the board, it is defective, I expect some kind of reasonable offers of compensation, such as....
  A full refund of purchase, or
  A free replacement  board with the problem solved.  That is not too much to ask.
  They (remember, i have not recieved a human answer from the company yet) offer...  Send in your board and we will send you a modifed board, whenever.
  Or the capacitor extraction, which, anybody who tries this is an awful brave sole.
  This is not a company who I will be doing business with in the future, unless they step up to the plate a little bit.

Offline WhiteHawk

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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2003, 05:15:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mrblack
I tell ya Im really sold on the asus p4p800 deluxe
$129.00 at http://www.newegg.com
I am having really good results with this board.


:(   that was my other choice.  Just goes to show waht good marketing can do to ya.

Offline bloom25

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« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2003, 07:46:33 PM »
I don't think Abit boards being manufactured by ECS is exactly something they are going to want to advertise, but unfortunately that is the reality of competing with the likes of Asus and MSI.

Abit is odd as far as motherboards go.  They make some very nice boards, but I haven't found them to be as consistent from model to model as Asus.  The bad (defective) capacitor issues they had a couple years ago were simply what made me stop using them regularly.

As for the current issue with the VDimm voltage.  To be honest I can't think of any simple reason why *removing* a single capacitor would make any drastic change.  Unfortunately I don't know which capacitor exactly they want removed, so I can't give a definative answer on this one.

Offline WhiteHawk

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« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2003, 08:13:46 PM »
Its in position mc64, if that means anything.  How is a capacitor responsible for voltage fluctuations?  I dont know.  It is my understanding that capacitors store current to supply a circuit when there is heavy load, which should stabilize the current.  I guess in DC electricity, it is the same.  I dont know how it would affect voltage.  Maybe they needed a resistor (or apparently nothing) there instead??Plus, with my DRAM voltage set at 2.9, i check PC health and the DRAm voltage is all over.  Ive seen it from 2.79V to over 3V in successive samples.  This is what they say is the problem.  Ive tried to run my PC at 2.9V just to see if I lucked out with my board.  No way.  If it boots, it locks up within seconds, so although I really never intended to push my system to that point, I am abit dissapointed that I dont have the option.
  As far as normal joe operation, I love the board.  I am now 225FSB and about 3.0GHz on the CPU clock.  And it looks like room to grow.  But the politics of abit is a big turnoff to this point.
  I guess its naive to expect any different from a big corporation these days.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2003, 08:18:23 PM by WhiteHawk »