How to get a high rank

[GRUNHERZ]

I generally try to kill the red icon fighters, by putting bullets in them and stuff....

[WldThing]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I generally try to kill the red icon fighters, by putting bullets in them and stuff....

Cheater!

[lazs2]

I don't know about the DA but in the Ma..  I can tell if a guy is good or not after fighting him a few times.    Some guys I will probly never fight because they never attack unless they think they have all the advantages and... they fly the fastest planes and keep up their e so that if the fight ever gets anywhere close to even they can run.

That is a skill but... unimportant to me.

the stats themselves are important to me because I know what I am trying to di that day/week/tour and can use the stats to guage how it is working out.    

for most people... K/h indicates risk per hour especialy if it is in relatively slow planes.

lazs

[Murdr]

This is why I was impressed with the ranking system in the first place.  If you all you do is avoid any engagement that could get you killed, your k/h will suffer, and possibly k/s.  If you pad your rank by only doing cv vulch runs, your points will suffer.  All the furballers out there in good or bad sits will leave you in the dust.  There are tea leaves to read in how the stats compare with each other.  

If you want to follow the list, good luck.  (#7 btw is about the dumbest suggestion.  If you cant put at least 95% of your bullets on a large field object by straifing, dont bother worrying about rank) The arena will generally not cooperate with your plans.  They are all targets of opportunity.  If you only make the attempt when there is an opportunity, those that bomb, gv, or whatever all the time, because they like to, will outscore you in points.  

I agree that it does not take into account players that dont want to bother with the stats.  I agree that the truest measure is the online interaction and the impressions made.  

As always, a high rank in fighters or in anything may or may not indicate skill, and that is why it's a flawed measure. We can tell little without context.

Here is where I disagree.  The premiss that is always in these types of discussions is to diminish those who do make achievments in performance metrics, on the basis that some choose not to compete.  The common thread (including your quote) is not that low ranks dont indicate a lack of skill, its that high ranks dont indicate skill.  The system works averages, and consistancy.  
I doubt that everyone here is obvlious to the dynamics of the arena.  How things very often dont go the way you planned or wanted.  Yet it is expected to be believed that high rankers can get away with gamey technics over a months time period consistantly with out acutally having any skill??  Come on:rolleyes:

It reminds me of the joke: How many guitarists does it take to change a lightbulb?
11.  One to change it, ten to stand around and tell everyone "Pfft, I could do that"

[Icer]

Originally posted by SlapShot

SlapShot Hint : What I did instead of flying a bomber, cause I suck in them, I used the JU-87 and switched the sorties from "attack" to "bomber".

HEHEHE... That and Kill-Stealin are the two best things you ever taught this old dog!!!

[VAQ]

Originally posted by Murdr
You actually retrieved all this data, and computed the findings?

Yes sir.  I have done more than that (see below).

Originally posted by Steve
Ya really need to explain this one... at least to me, please?

Sure.  My totally crude method:

37 players responded to this thread at the time I was doing my original figuring.  Using a player base of 5200, admittedly a rather high number, 37 players comprise 0.712% of the total player base.  Upon reflection, the highest rank I have seen is 5120, if I use this figure I come up with 0.72% of the total player base participating in this discussion.

If you go thru this thread and average the overall rank of those responding (Tour 47) you come up with an average rank of 950 (overall) which would be the top 18.27%, using my previous high figure of 5200.  Using 5120 it works out to 18.55%.

I logged into the MA last night and took a couple of random samples (same number of players) off the roster.  My first sample averaged an overall rank of 1547, placing this hypothetical player in the top 30.21%.  My second sample yielded an average overall rank of 1661, placing this hypothetical player in the top 32.44%.  I did use 5120 as the total number of players this time around.

I pulled up the squad ranking for Tour 47.  Applying the same crude method to the #1 and #2 ranked squads yielded average overall ranks of 1716 (top 33.5%) and 2067 (top 40.37%), respectively (very close to the same number of players; the figures presented represent only those squad members with a reported score.  Using the total number of squadron members, which includes some members with a rank of zero, the results are 1103 and 1597 respectively).  

So I feel that I was in the ballpark when I said that an extremely small number of players with an average rank/score within the top 18% of all players in the game are participating in a discussion about the lack of merit in said rank/scoring system.  I thought this very chivalrous of you guys.  

Of course, it is said that chivalry is the most delicate form of contempt.

If the lowest ranked 18% of players in the game, say those with an overall rank of 4000 and up, discussed the lack of merit in the rank/scoring system I hazard to guess that it would be recorded as a whine.  Yet from the highest ranked it is altruism?

Actually, this seems to be the case.  Here is where the real work began, Murdr.  I went thru the stats of everyone who responded to this thread looking for a pattern of score whoring.  I do not mean just Tour 47 stats this time; I went thru all of them, starting from Tour 12 in many cases.  With the exception of a few players, the majority of respondents to this thread generally play it on the straight and narrow as far as scoring goes.  Vehicle/boat hit % vs. objects makes a good litmus test.  Check out Nexx's Tour 42 veh/boat hit % vs. objects! 118.75%!

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Your basic premise is flawed

I cannot state that a thread discussing the lack of merit in the scoring system is being participated in by those who manipulate said system, and I thought I would be able to.  This was my basic premise.  I was dead wrong.

Do I still believe that people are judged by their rank in this game- yes, I do, your squaddies and BBS buddies notwithstanding.  If I have ever looked up another players rank after a fight, I cannot say that rank does not matter to me.  If I have ever compared my rank to others, I cannot say that rank does not matter to me.  If I have ever used my rank to deny another player control of the cv (or take it away) I cannot say rank does not matter to me.  Is there one among us that has never done any of these things?  

...ummm, very few, if you start looking.  There is a search function on this BBS, and I was up until 3am last night using it:)

I read that the total number of players is now at or close to 6000? wow

[Shane]

Originally posted by Steve
Let's take Shane as an example.  This COULD be that he has limited SA in what you call Tactical and Strategic areas.

well let me clarify a few of your points.  you were cagey to use "could."

I almost never don't see the one that gets me. I'm very aware of the situtations i put myself into. survival is not a high high high priority to me, i'll continue to look for a fight even with no ammo if something's close enough by. there are times when i will hightail it out of dodge.

i toss out barbs win or lose. and slobberdonkeys is usually reserved for when i log on or log off. and of course my landed msg.

i do so in the hopes of eventually baiting someone to the DA for a little lesson or 3, to help them round out what might be the weakest aspect of their game. namely, being able to handle a con from any advantage or disadvantage in the absense of a buncha buddies.

unfortunately many percieve the generic barbs and taunts i toss out as some kind of a personal effront. then they start to go in on me on ch1 word warrior can be it's own entertainment in it's own way as long as people avoid truly getting personal with it, which many who try and ride a high horse when it comes to "my" smack... can't do themselves. i can't help it if i'm bluntly honest in acknowledging others' suckiness. i don't rag on noobs, fwiw.

[Steve]

Shane I used "Could" because it is one possible explanation. Naturally if I opined that this is actually the case, I would have said that it "Does" explain.  I suspect your numbers are attributed to what you posted, much like the latter scenario in my post:

OTOH it is equally probable that Shane just doesn't much care about his numbers in the MA and loves to knife fight on the deck against all comers.

Todd's numbers, WT's... are probably the same way.  I haven't checked to be honest, but I suspect they are similar... respectable K/D and K/S with exceptional K/H. IMO simply taking off to find a fight or 3 and have fun tends to naturally generate these kinds of ratios(assuming the pilot is skilled). My K/D is higher not because I am better, but  because I often care(not always) if I live or not. Conversely, my K/H is  probably lower than yours, Todd's, and WT's. I'm having fun though so I'll let the numbers "fall where they may".
Through experience, I'm convinced that you guys have it right.  In other words, striving for a huge K/D, for instance, is more chore than fun.

I understand what motivates you to "toss out barbs"   Notice I haven't risen to the bait in a long time.  I'm content to sit quietly in the depths and watch the minnows boil on the surface.


Vaq, I still think the rank system is not fully indicative of just who the best pilots in the arena are.  I'll grant you that a no talent dolt(except perhaps for myself) probably cannot finish in the top 10 or 12 in fighters for the tour.  OTOH I think I finished near the top in fighters the last few tours and can easily think of several pilots who are better than me. I like the K/H stat though, it tends to show how aggressive a pilot is. I'm never impressed by a high K/D.. but high K/H is something that garners my respect.

[NUKE]

Steve is better than Shane, I rest my case.

[VAQ]

Originally posted by Steve
Vaq, I still think the rank system is not fully indicative of just who the best pilots in the arena are.  I'll grant you that a no talent dolt (except perhaps for myself) probably cannot finish in the top 10 or 12 in fighters for the tour. I like the K/H stat though, it tends to show how aggressive a pilot is. I'm never impressed by a high K/D.. but high K/H is something that garners my respect.  

Just to make sure we are on the same page here- I agree with your statement.  The rank system is not fully indicative of just who the best pilots in the arena are.  I do not contest this.  

I kind of think that K/H is just as screwy as the rest of it, tho, and I have more fun with numbers to illustrate:

Tour 47
steve has a K/H of 9.792 (100:32:24)
vaq has a K/H of 9.36 (000:06:24)

According to the score page my one six minute sortie comes awfully close to what you did in one hundred hours.  That’s messed up.

[TweetyBird]

I like the kill/hour ratio because of why I fly - i.e., the most bang for my buck or time. But even that I don't think can be used is as a great test to see who is the "best". I know you pointed that out, I just reiterate . I don't think too many comanders would be overly impressed by overly agressive pilots bringing back busted aircraft.

And as you said, the best 25% or so of the pilots will be evident somewhere in the stats, but I doubt narrowing it down much further would be accurate. I think if the game had one purpose there would be a test for the best. But since its many things to many people, I guess its more a matter if its bringing you more fun (or feeling of accomplishment) than frustration. Thats one reason I gave up golf

I also don't think its fair to dog the "pont ho's". If thats their goal, who am I (or anyone) to rain on their parade. My only goal is get to a point where I can honestly say "chase me at YOUR peril." Now thats a long, long ways off,  so the stats I look at are only to show me if I'm progressing or regressing.

I remember years ago on Geni discussions about mathematical formulas that would more successfuly show a pilots skill level ( all that showed in the top 20 were the raw points accumulated). Now we have a much more advanced scoring system, and it could be argued its not a whole lot more successful in picking the "best" pilots. Maybe because the best pilot in the world is the one that clears your six when your energy is gone

Seems like a huge argument to state "have fun!"

[Murdr]

Originally posted by TweetyBird
where I can honestly say "chase me at YOUR peril."  

Now that you mention it, that is one of my favorites

[nopoop]

Originally posted by TweetyBird
My only goal is get to a point where I can honestly say "chase me at YOUR peril

My sentiments exactly. Though after many years and thousands of hours I have fallen short.

But there's always the next sortie, the next tour..

I think if I EVER get to that point, which I seriously doubt, the hook will be removed from my mouth.

I'm not so sure I'd like that.

[jaxxo]

I average in the 180s every T.O.D without score whoring. (well not much) I dont consider myself a great pilot but rank is somewhat important, only if to take a CV away from some jackarse. Maybe i should score potato if not just to hide cv's from a country jumper belonging to a well established squad in another country..oh sorry wrong post. Anyway's..in reply to Shanes remarks...I wish i could see that attitude from you on Channel 1 bud..very positive..Rod has told me u are a great teacher but I would not approach you for lessons if I was a newbie..quite frankly  you frighten me lol. Shane is right though..a new generation of gamers is invading the arena and along with that comes new attitude...alot of foul mouthed trash-talking and disrespecting. Young players see this and feed off of it..veteran pilots need to embrace the newbs and get off our high horse. also everyone score potatos a little..Tell me thats your face doesnt light up a smile when u count 40 objects  destroyed

[jaxxo]

"Steve is better than Shane, I rest my case."

Thats an interesting quote.
Steve i had alot of distaste for your tactics for along time in the m/a but have grown to appreciate them. I even try to mirror them when my patience is available. I think your flying style is more conducive to a real combat scenario. Shane flys like hes playing a game and good for him. My point is there are many different legitamate approaches to the game as far as how a pilot wants to fly...noones being any better than any others.