"style" comparissons...

[Mini D]

Summary:

We've managed to make the fights closer and lower... now if we could only figure out how to keep everyone from taking advantage of it.

I do like the way you seem to indicate only the strat guys have the horde mentality tho... it's almost as if a large group upping from one base is only OK if it engageges a large group from another base without budging an inch in either direction.  Furballers have every bit the horde/opportunistic mentality of everyone... it's just convenient to have someone else to blame it on.

That

[NoBaddy]

Originally posted by SlapShot
Sorry Shane ... Chutes and Ladders is where it's at.

BAILER!!!

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Shane
see...

beet1e : 800yds

tw9: 600-700yds

Yes, but a few comments here. The distance between us was increasing all the time. I saw 800 at the time damage occurred, TW9 saw 600/700 - but even those distances would have been an incredible range to try for a shot in RL WW2. Besides, I once accidentally fired at an egressing 109 from a range of 1000 yards and an upward angle of about 25° - and got a clean kill!!! (I was in F6F or F4U - can't remember; the 109 saw it as 1100 yards). And that's Bull whichever way you look at it.

Mr. Toad! I've only just seen your post from 03:06 this afternoon. The transformation? Not quite. I still think fuel could be a valid strat target. The difference is that these days, the tardz are making a beeline for the fuel. Their style is to send a suicide squad to take out the fuel, and then fight for capture of the base, knowing that you won't have enough fuel for sustained flight much above 10K. The transformation that you perceive was when you started realising that my planes do not run on solar power and that I'm affected by fuel porkage too!

[Toad]

Beet, if you step back and review our entire discussion from Day 1 on this topic...... and if you're honest with yourself....... you're going to realize that you've significantly changed your position. Goodness, me....... you almost start to sound like a furballer.

I give you a few more months and you'll be shouting "move the fields closer together" along with Laz. It's an insidious disease, isn't it?

[nopoop]

I've noticed the slide too Toad..

hmmmm..

[Mini D]

Sorry toad... but I disagree on the "move the fields closer" aspect on things.  I seriously doubt people will get more and more on board with that.  Festers map will show that over time.

I find this thread funny.  Everything lazs is *****ing about at the start is things that were warned about when "moving the fields closer together" was presented.  Dweeb behavior occurs at the bases... moving them closer together just gives those wishing it easier access.

Lazs sat and told me he saw none of what he just started a thread about last I saw him.  Of course, he'd only played Fester's map once at that time... and just talked alot about things he didn't know **** about.

Moving the bases closer does not lessen the impact of dweebish behavior.  It does not make the fights better.  It makes fights closer, but it also makes the dweebish behavior closer.  I've not seen this kind of vulching, gang-banging, cherry-picking behavior so pronounced as on this map.  Seems someone noticed it actually affecting them and is now going to try to somehow blame that on the strat guys.

This is every bit as much the fault of the horde of furballers.

MiniD

[nopoop]

Kewl, we're a horde now.

Things are looking up !!

[Toad]

Relax your colon a while there Mini. I was talking to Beet about the change in HIS position. I wasn't saying anything but that.

I know you feel you have to jump in on anything that resembles a comment of any sort, though, so enjoy the New Year.

I'm sure you'll be busy.

[Mini D]

Yes toad.. it's everyone else that feels the need to jump in on everything.

MiniD

[Toad]

This'll come as a big shock to you Sheriff, but Beet and I have been known to yank each other's chain a bit.

But thanks for pulling me over in the interest of the public weal. One can't be too careful, can one?

Gonna let me off with a warning this time Barn? Think Andy'll give ya a bullet if you do?

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Toad
Beet, if you step back and review our entire discussion from Day 1 on this topic...... and if you're honest with yourself....... you're going to realize that you've significantly changed your position. Goodness, me....... you almost start to sound like a furballer.

I haven't changed my position, but the ground has shifted.

YOU were always in favour of freedom of choice - more choices for everyone - including, one assumes, the freedom to pork fuel. But now you don't like all the fuel porkage.

What has changed is that whereas fuel occasionally got porked and we would deal with it, the new tardz squadz make it a matter of routine to pork every front line field to 25% as a pre-emptive measure. Then they can focus on capturing that field knowing that there will only be minimal resistance.

It's rather like the F4U-1C pre-perk situation. No-one coming to this game could possibly have any objection to someone else flying a CHog. But what to do when 80% of the arena is full of CHogs? Something has to be done. Same thing goes for fuel. The tardz have made a beeline for the fuel. So something needs to be done...

But I agree with MiniD. Moving the fields closer together has made this porkage behaviour all the more feasible. I personally don't see much fuel porkage on the pizza, and the suicide tardz have to wait longer between suicide trips because of distance between fields. That is as it should be. I warned that this suicide tardery would be worse with the fields closer together, and I was right. Fester too has seen the light, and spaced the fields out in certain areas.

[Mini D]

Originally posted by Toad
This'll come as a big shock to you Sheriff, but Beet and I have been known to yank each other's chain a bit.

You call me sherrif?  I'm sorry toad... maybe you should re-read this thread again.

And in case you didn't know... lazs and I have been known to do the same.

Didn't know you wanted to move into the sherrif bit toad.  You sure as hell brought the high-horse for it.

MiniD

[Toad]

Sure, Barney. Whatever you say. Isn't it time you made your rounds of every other thread on the BBS?

[Toad]

What has changed is that whereas fuel occasionally got porked and we would deal with it, the new tardz squadz make it a matter of routine to pork every front line field to 25% as a pre-emptive measure. Then they can focus on capturing that field knowing that there will only be minimal resistance.

Nah, entire fronts have been getting porked for quite a while. You just didn't notice back then.  

Beet, if they want to pork fuel, let 'em. It's been going on a long, long time; it's been at the "problem" level for a long time for a lot of people, particularly early war types and those who don't enjoy the travel time from a "a field farther back". That's what you always used to suggest, remember? Take off from a field farther back. Now, though... it even bothers YOU. Welcome aboard, shipmate.

I think you realize now that the gameplay aspect of it is way out of balance.

If I could repair fuel anywhere near as fast as one guy could take it out.... a balance of effort between destruction/resupply... it'd be pretty easy to keep the entire front from being at 25% wouldn't it?

It isn't the fields being too close. That cuts both ways; you can resupply faster from a close field. Resupply vehicles don't have the speed of most good jabos BUT with close fields or close spawn points, resupply could be reasonably fast. Unfortunately, when the resuppliers have to put out 3X or 5X or 7X of the human effort/time to repair as the jabos do to destruct....... you're always going to have a problem in this area.

It's going to get looked at eventually. But right now, as a famous person told me, there's things that don't work at all that need to work, so the things that are working but need adjusting aren't going to get touched for a while.

T-P.

[beet1e]

Hehe, Mr. Toad.

Nah, entire fronts have been getting porked for quite a while. You just didn't notice back then.

I think I would notice if there was no fuel for my plane. No, it's not quite as you think. There have been more people online during the xmas holiday period, and so the porkage conveyor belt has borne had a greater density of steamrollers than normal. After everyone's back at work, attendance figures will drop - certainly in Euro hours. I think the problem has been one of having a map with close fields up during a holiday period. It's been Porkerama in the MA for the past week.

It isn't the fields being too close. That cuts both ways; you can resupply faster from a close field.

As you went on to say, the proximity of one field to the next need make no difference to resupply times. The M3 spawn points are usually about 4 minutes drive from the field to be resupplied (or captured) regardless of the distance between the fields themselves.

If I could repair fuel anywhere near as fast as one guy could take it out.... a balance of effort between destruction/resupply... it'd be pretty easy to keep the entire front from being at 25% wouldn't it?

The only time I've seen damage repaired as quickly as it was inflicted was in Terminator-2 - that indestructible bad guy that made himself look like a traffic cop. The MA fuel porkers are able/have the inclination to pork a whole front back to 25% because it's so damn easy on maps like QWW(1) and Children's, and can be done so quickly. That's what comes of having the fields too close together. Don't say I didn't warn you!

T-P to you too.