WoD for SSO Frame 3 Allies

[Tilt]

I suppose I could say that WoD jumped at the chance/honour to fly with the Allies in frame 3.

I could say that we fancied a bit of a change.

I would have to categorically deny we just volunteered to help balance the sides.

It could be said that they (them other axis squads) ganged up on us, that secret meetings took place, that a note was pushed under the door in the dead of night saying "some ones gotta go and we have decided its you guys". Guess I'd have to deny that too.

But I hates em already......damn axis types...........


Does any one have that flag the Mexicans waved at the Alamo? .................. the red one?

[LLv34_Camouflage]

Originally posted by Tilt

"some ones gotta go and we have decided its you guys".  

No Tilt, the note said "....we have decided its you."  Singular!





Thanks for frames 1 and 2, Tilt & WoD, always a pleasure flying with you gents!!



Camo

[ramzey]

design is perfect, whats reason to swich?

[Tilt]

Originally posted by ramzey
[Bdesign is perfect, whats reason to swich? [/B]

Wrong flag................. I meant the red one............

Santa Anna left no doubt regarding his attitude towards the defenders of the Alamo. He sent a message that demanded immediate surrender or death by sword. Travis answered the demand with a cannon ball. Santa Anna hoisted a blood-red battle flag, the traditional Mexican symbol of no quarter, no surrender, no mercy.

[ghostdancer]

design is perfect, whats reason to swich?

Your opinion has been noted and discussed by all the command staff of all the participating squads. 9 squads voted to continue and gave feedback on either the B17 or the SBD option. 1 squad voted to cancel the frame.

The specific reason for the switch is that 2 allied squads said that they preferred the SBD option for frame 3 instead of the limited B17 option. They emailed me and others saying that they thought 3 - 4 formations of B17s (9-12 late war B17s) could produce a more exaggerrated effect on the frame than the JU88s did. Since the B17s are much more heavily armed and can take much more punishment.

So after getting feedback from squads instead, while not historical, the US is getting SBDs with second lives.

In light of this, to have the allies at a number disadvantage does not make sense and is not balanced (with the B17 option it would have been balanced). So we are moving the WoD to the allied side for the frame to boost the allies numbers. Consider it a transfer of a fighter squad from Mindanao since the IJN did not take out those bases in the south.

P.S. Your website and email was down last night. Hopefully it is now up and you have gotten the objectives for frame 3.

[ViFF]

Ghostdancer, as Allied CO of the 3rd frame I never recieved any email asking if we prefer SBD's with 2 lives to B-17s.

I actually have an opinion, and emailed you.. plz reply.

[ramzey]

Originally posted by ViFF
Ghostdancer, as Allied CO of the 3rd frame I never recieved any email asking if we prefer SBD's with 2 lives to B-17s.

 

lol

----------------------------------------

ps. our ISP is moving server, webpage is up now, mail will be up soon. Always you can mail me at ramzey@joimail.com

[ghostdancer]

ViFF I have posted here and sent it in most of the emails. The suggestion of SBDs was put forth and argued for by Flyboy of your squad. Feedback was asked on the B17 idea when we were discussing the results of frame 1 and that is Flyboy brought up the SBD idea.

Now alot of people just sent their comments to me privately and did not send their comments to everyone involved. Since you did not comment on it, I took it that Flyboy, your X.O. was stating your squad's position.

[ghostdancer]

ViFF I just sent email to all the command staff of the squads.

You have the SBD option. Which is the SBDs, 2 lives each and Wings of Death move to allies.

Or you have the B17 option. 3 formations of B17s (9), no second life, alt cap of 22K, and Wings of Death stay IJN. Oh, and obviously no dive bombing B17s please.

I am awaiting your choice, and feedback from 880th and 56th Firebird. 315th had made their opinion clear that they think the event should be cancelled.

[ramzey]

GD my english is not perfect, but i write about swiching design to other.

You have great selective reading. Im impress

[ghostdancer]

Ramzey you wrote in this thread:

Ghostdancer, could you cancel last frame and let Suave run his setup next week? Of course if he is ready

This setup is wont worth to fix

These are your words and I think all of those reading it understand your stated position. You may hold to your opinion of me that I am doing "selective" reading. You may try the excuse that your english is not very good and keep stating that to everyone that I and others don't understand what you really mean. Its a simple two sentences your wrote here.

I will let your words asking to cancel the last  frame (frame 3 of the event) and moving up Suave SSO instead speak for you.

Your opinons on the BBS and previously by email has been noted. It has been read by the CMs and the command staff of the other squads.

[ramzey]

and in response you wrote about cancel next frame and none word about replace it by other setup

QUOTE]Originally posted by ghostdancer
I have not gotten responses back from every squad yet. But here is the responses I have gotten from the commanding staff of the squads participatin so far in response to Ramzey call to cancel frame 3:

[/QUOTE]

should be

QUOTE]Originally posted by ghostdancer
I have not gotten responses back from every squad yet. But here is the responses I have gotten from the commanding staff of the squads participatin so far in response to Ramzey call to cancel frame 3 and run Suave setup next week in place of fame 3:

[/QUOTE]

right?

Suave is not ready with next setup, cancel next frame of SOPS is unacceptable. SO we running last frame of this setup. Its obvious
SO what for this pool? just for fun?

eot for me

[ghostdancer]

All the command staff of the squads have read the emails sent and the posts sent. They all know you called for frame to be cancelled and if possible to move up the next frame.

For somebody who claims he doesn't know English very, well you are doing a very, very good job of trying to cut a very, very fine semantic hair.

I posted the following on the CM board:

Since most of the squads C.O.s or X.O.s are CMs I thought I would also post here.

Ramzey wants to cancel frame 3 and move to Suave.

I have already heard from the 88oth (Warloc) saying no and from the 101 RED Israel saying no.

You called for the cancellation of frame 3 of this event and if possible moving up the other SSO. They read it, I emailed them about posted it on a forum that I know many of them read to try to speed up the process and I got their answers.

I am sorry that you are unhappy that the other squads did not agree with your assessment of frame 1. I am sorry that you are unhappy that the other squads command staff voiced their opinion and wanted to continue with frame 3 with the modifications and have been giving constructive feedback instead of canceling and trying to move Suave’s SSO forward.

I do believe and give them credit that they perfectly understood what you were asking for and then what I was asking if they wanted to cancel frame 3 and bring Suave's SSO up a week if possible.

They are adults who read the threads and their email and are able to make logical well founded solutions without having everything spelled out in exquisite detail in every single posting and every email. I believe they can extrapolate and remember what they read in a posting and email to the next during a discussion. That I don’t have to constantly in every single email and posting repeat exactly what they have read and has been stated before or that they won’t remember.

I believe they do remember your email about frame 1 where you emailed about the quality of the squad ops events and your concern for the rest of the event. At the time I requested their opinions and feedback.  The C.O.s and X.O.s of the other squads thought it was fun and said that their pilots, in general had fun that frame. And that they did not have an issue with the quality of squad ops.

Your response was:

"its not the point i have funn or not."

That is your opinion and you are entitled too it. Just like now. But they are entitled to their opinions. You many continue in your opinion and semantics argument that since I did not say and move Suave’s SSO up in every single posting and correspondence that they did not know what they were being asked to give an opinion on.

Ghostdancer, NOT CANCEL EVENT, SWICH DESIGN!
next is not ready so we have NO other choice. Design is good or not

so, pls stop using this comunistic demagogy, i heard it enough in school

You may continue to insult me via email for my attempts to actually gather people’s input and feedback to figure out what I did wrong and improve my performance and the fun factor of events offered. And for then describing my decision based on the unanimous feedback of the command staff of the other squads as “communistic demagogy.”

Basically I am damned if I consult others and let myself be swayed and modifications based on their feedback or if I ignore them. I am sure if I ignored them and valued 1 opinion over the other 9 or only my opinion that I would be deemed by some to be just a demagogue on a power trip.

You may continue to try to convince me and others that you don’t mean what you say and that your actions don’t also what you convey.

You have that right.

I will continue to strive to treat people in a professional way (failing at times granted .. since I am human). I will continue to give people the credit of being able to think logical and critically. I will continue to seek the feedback of the participants and command staff of squads. And I will give it due consideration.

[lucull]

its not the point i have funn or not.

If you add the word "personally", you get what Ramzey meant to say:

"It's not the point that me, as an individual pilot, needs to have fun or not, but the overall amount of people that particpate in historical based events get's the possibility to have fun. "

I don't think that anyone here expected you to cancel frame 3, just because ramzey proposed it... even not ramzey himself.

Making a poll about this was pathetic, especially if the XO of CM team and teamleader of friday and sunday SO makes it.

As long as 315 RAF doesn't break any of these rules , you can tell us considering to leave or make as many polls as you like to bash us. We will stay.

We like to fly historical events and as long you don't write openly, that you encourage player critics as long as they don't come from ramzey or myself, we will give our input via email or on this BB. All the critics, even though you obviously have a different point of view on this, are not meant as personal attacks against you or any other admin CM. That's how it is, was and always will be.

I'm upset that you think that we don't like flying SSO and it made me really angry when Flossy asked us to re-evaluate our participation in this. Do really think, that I would spend dozens of hours of my freetime and sit until night in front of my PC working on the squadops page, if I don't like it?
If you are honestly, there would be no squadops page ready without me (well, there didn't much change since I finished my part in mid Dec). I feel sorry that I left the squadops page project for those people who worked with me on it and shared their thoughts of how to make it. Especially Gremlin, who now has to work alone again on coding and has to understand what I have done and how.
But how could I work for people that ask me indirectly to leave SO?

You feel insulted? What do you think how I feel?

I suggest skuzzy closes this thread and we spend our time and energy on sunday squadops and not on politics.

That's my last statement on this topic.

p.s. If you want to know how difficult it is to discuss with sophisticated native speakers, you should start to learn polish and discuss with ramzey in 1,5 years. I bet it would change your mind.

[ghostdancer]

Your opinion is noted and I am sure will be evaluated by all and they can make up there own minds as to what was meant of not by Ramzey's words and yours.

You consider a poll pathetic. I consider it checking to see if others felt the way being ascribe to them by one party. I have many examples in the past of modifying SSO events, while the event was going, based on players feedback. So you can say state that nobody would contradict me .. once again you are making the assumption of speaking for them and assuming they are afraid of me somehow because of my position. I believe past events have shown that I do listen and do modify. I have in the past even removed a CM from running an event based on player feedback.

But you are entitled to your opinion that it is pathetic and nobody would contradict me.

I try to keep my style as flexible and consensus building. I do have other CMs tell me that it should be more dictatorial and that this is the setup, these are the rules, and either participate or don't.

The point of fun was stated in email and the other respondents were saying that they and their squads are having fun. You may make your case that Ramzey really meant that his response was only meant about him having fun and not in response to another squad saying that they had fun contradicting his opinon. That is your right.

I am sorry that you feel insulted that other people's opinions are taking into consideration. But did I call any of you a communist demagogue? Did I call for Tilt being punished (banned) for not getting orders out in time like the 412th was? When in truth I had explained that frame 1 was delayed because of real life event without going into detail about the exact details. Only explaining the details after calling for Tilt to be treated like the 412th.

Did I say step down from working on the events server. Gremlin was already working on the events server and on your own initiate you started one of your own without being asked by the CM corp to do so. He asked to incorporate you into the project and it was agreed to.

Your participation was valuable and did speed up the process but yes, it was being worked on. Can not your statements about Gremlin be considered insulting to him?

Do you not think that the posts that Ramzey has posted can't be viewed in a negative light?

and why we not learn week ago?

design is perfect, whats reason to swich?

You have great selective reading. Im impress

(in response to Bike Kil's post)
if somone will give you cube to play, you will be happy to ;-)

Need a go on. I value all feedback. The others have given feedback even when upset and unhappy about frames and specific items. The tone of their messages in my opinion is different. You say it is not. That is fine and your opinion.

My closing thought is remember that HiTech and Pyro posted a thread in the past about civility and uncivility on the BBS boards and consequences.