Iraq Had WMD

[Nakhui]

Originally posted by Toad
I care.

Bush and his administration put forward the Iraqi WMD program/stockpiles as the "true threat" that justified sending US combat troops into Iraq to remove said threat.

However, if it turns out they were wrong, there still has to be accountability.

500+ of this nation's finest have given their lives to remove this "true threat".

If it's not there, the buck stops on the CINC's desk. That simple. He's responsible and accountable for this action. He gets the support and adulation if it proves correct, he gets the blame if it was wrong.

Time will tell and it'll be sooner rather than later.

You've come to the dark side!
Welcome Young Skywalker!

It's not just 500 dead... it's 9,000 wounded and maimed... and 20,000 plus Iraqi's dead military and civilian who had nothing to do with Saddam except they were conscripts in his army.

Nevertheless, the US is now in control of the second largest known oil reserve - I'm sure that has nothing to do with the decision to invade Iraq - even though plans for divying up who controls the pumping stations were finished before any plan of Iraqi reconstruction and self rule were thought about!

I do know that the professionals in the Intel Business don't express official opinion about a target unless there is corroberated and cedible "Raw" data to back it up... that would be photos, SIGINT, and/or HUMINT.

Kay's accusations that the intel was faulty is a lie.  And he will be proven wrong.... just like so many other "truths" out of the Administration have already been exposed as "untruths".

The Intell from the CIA/NSA/DIA/etc has ALWAYS contradicted the White House's WMD position. This will come out shortly.

The White House Stove piped and groomed the information they wanted Congress to see and the world to believe.

For example... The WMD mobile weapon lab CAD drawings which Powel showed to the UN as "THE" evidence of WMD - those were created at the White House by a White House AIDE! The story has already been debunked... now that they are starting to investigate the sources of the stories and asking why... the truth will come out as to who created them!

Here's a clue for you... They all originated from the White House.
The intell community does a very good job at keeping track of paper - you know reports sent to senior officials detailing what we know and why.

Now why would a senior White House official want to expose and ruin the cover of a CIA operative? You know the wife of former Embassador Wilson - Remember Embassador Wilson who refuted the White House's position on the Niger-Iraq Nuke connection - simply because it was a blatant and patent untruth. Even after the CIA sent a 55+ page memo no less than 4 times to the White House to inform them of this... and expressly told them not to give this story credit in the State of the Union address - yet Bush did any way?

Why would the White House (Americans) intentionally commit a felonly - against US national security interests?

Who knows! But they did. That's why they are being investigated by a special prosecutor.

Oh and there's more... so much more!
The truth will come out.

No worries...

It's not a leftist or liberal thing - or a we hate BUSH thing - like the small brains would think.

Time will tell and it'll be sooner rather than later

It sure will and it has already started.

There are patterns... unmistakeble patterns... if you just pay attention.

Is Bush just stupid and evil... no.
He's just not open about his agenda. No President or government ever is, and in this case... they can't be!

LOL

[Nakhui]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
My question to that would be:

We have satellites that can see corn in your poop, even how hot that corn is...why couldn't we see the WMD being transported across the border?"

Shhhh!!!

We can... and we have computer tenchology which can analyze the difference between imagines to draw attention to movement and other activity - oh such as trucks and facilities being built or dismantled.

Shhhh!!

The WMD believers don't know this... they only know that liberals are evil and they hate Bush!

Let them believe stock piles can be buried in the sand with out any one ever knowing about it... or transported to another country... in a war zone... with U2, SR-71, predator, and all other kinds of Intel gathering planes are flying over head.

oh it gets even better... even through Kurdish territory... remember.. where the kurds live... Saddam would have had to drive all this WMD "stuff" through his enemies territory.

Oh I belive Syria has all the WMD now!!! Yeah right!

Just hope Israel doesn't learn this... Syria will be a parking lot if they found out!

[Cerceuilvolant]

Originally posted by ygsmilo
History is an interesting thing is'nt it.

I suppose that YOU being the proud owner of the Vichy govenment puts you right up there with the best,,, eh ?

Dear ygsmilo, half of these countries are still sponsored by the US. Some are missing, such as Pakistan, Uzbekistan, etc...

The difference between us and you, is that when we support a dictatorship for our national interest, we don't deny it.

You accused us for the post 1991 Iraq when it was wrong...After all, I don't have any problem with it, 90% of the world opinion was behind us. And the world opinion is more important than the opinion from chicken hawks who didn't even made their military duty, or rednecks watching fauxnews.

[Angus]

Just wondering, is the US going to wage war on anybody that could possibly posess some arms that might possibly remotely be used against them?
Saddam was definately trying to develop WMD's, but I guess he never got that far.
But with the evidence for it so far, the US could easily justify a military action anywhere, and anytime.
Wag the dog

[Toad]

Originally posted by Nakhui
You've come to the dark side!

 

No, this is what I said pre-invasion. The difference, I think, between you and I is that I gave them the benefit of the doubt from the beginning. I believed them.

But I always said they were going to have to find the WMD they talked about to justify it. There's no change in my position.

Originally posted by Nakhui
It's not just 500 dead... it's 9,000 wounded and maimed

Sources please? I've seen ~3000 wounded but you're stating 3X that figure.

Originally posted by Nakhui
even though plans for divying up who controls the pumping stations were finished before any plan of Iraqi reconstruction

Source for this fact?

Originally posted by Nakhui
the professionals in the Intel Business don't express official opinion about a target

It's been my experience that they don't express "official" opinion at all. They let the civilian politicians in the government do that. Moreover, I KNOW that often times "known" facts are not released in order to protect/conceal the sources/methods of gathering the info.

Originally posted by Nakhui
Kay's accusations that the intel was faulty is a lie

Fact or more opinion? Lie is a pretty big charge. Source?


As for the rest, you're a bit too "black helicopter" for me. Sorry. We'll just have to see if tin foil hats were/are warranted at some later date.

[Nakhui]

Originally posted by Toad
As for the rest, you're a bit too "black helicopter" for me. Sorry. We'll just have to see if tin foil hats were/are warranted at some later date.

LOL - posting sources to this board is pointless. Even when those sources come from the US Government.

You'll read what you want to read and draw the conclusions you want to beleive.

The math to the maimed and wounded include every one who's been wounded and maimed, including non-US since the start of the war.

NOT just US soldiers!

You know it's possible to do statistical modeling on the lies that come out of the White House. LOL

Look at what they said was true and then look at what turned out to be true.

Does any one even wonder what that number would be.
They've said a hell of a lot of crap that's not true.

Someone has actually counted them all... and put the statistics together with original source... so you can verify - if you choose to know the truth.

Do you want the link?... no wait.. it's just another we-hate-bush site - not really, but since it's not pro-bush... it must be anti-Bush -and therefore a liberal OpEd site.

Ok never mind then.

In any case, the facts will be in the Justice department investigation of the CIA operative leak and the ISC report on 9/11, as well as the investigation Kay is calling for.

There's also an investigation going on at GCHQ which will bring more information to light about this entire fiasco.

Once those become open source - you'll have all the proof you need.

[Gunslinger]

Lets see some numbers of how many iraqis died under sadam.  Would the number be greater or lower since the invasion?

[Angus]

That makes roughly 1000 per month.
Hmm, somewhat humble compared to Saddam's score...?

[Cobra412]

Satellites can be avoided as I'm sure many already know.  Chess games have been played for years against satellite recon by many nations.

If this weren't the case then many top secret bases around the world wouldn't be so top secret anymore.  Adjusting movements based on a satellites orbit can be done.  Hiding planes, equipment and personel movements all fall under this.

We may be able to read the numbers off a dime from a satellite as some may think but timing is everything.

[yowser]

Originally posted by Toad
I care.

I doubt I'd be described as a radical leftie or even a leftie at all for that matter.

I'm sorry, but from my point of view the only possible justification for invading another sovereign country..... even one ruled by a despot like Saddam.... is a true threat to US National Security.

Bush and his administration put forward the Iraqi WMD program/stockpiles as the "true threat" that justified sending US combat troops into Iraq to remove said threat.

I admit I accepted their word and their reasoning (I still do accept the reasoning, but the proof is needed.) and supported it.

However, if it turns out they were wrong, there still has to be accountability.

500+ of this nation's finest have given their lives to remove this "true threat".

If it's not there, the buck stops on the CINC's desk. That simple. He's responsible and accountable for this action. He gets the support and adulation if it proves correct, he gets the blame if it was wrong.

Time will tell and it'll be sooner rather than later.

Well said.  This should not be a partisian issue.  BOTH sides should want to know the truth.

If you don't want to know the truth, you've got your priorities severely messed up.

yowser

[Toad]

Originally posted by Nakhui
Once those become open source - you'll have all the proof you need.

But until then we have to just accept your unsupported claims?

rolleyesthingie

[Toad]

Originally posted by GScholz
I do know that in the 10 months after the invasion between 8059 and 9896 civilians have been killed, and 625 Coalition servicemen.

Source please? Is it the IBC site?

[Scootter]

Originally posted by Nakhui
You've come to the dark side!
Welcome Young Skywalker!

It's not just 500 dead... it's 9,000 wounded and maimed... and 20,000 plus Iraqi's dead military and civilian who had nothing to do with Saddam except they were conscripts in his army.

Nevertheless, the US is now in control of the second largest known oil reserve - I'm sure that has nothing to do with the decision to invade Iraq - even though plans for divying up who controls the pumping stations were finished before any plan of Iraqi reconstruction and self rule were thought about!

I do know that the professionals in the Intel Business don't express official opinion about a target unless there is corroberated and cedible "Raw" data to back it up... that would be photos, SIGINT, and/or HUMINT.

Kay's accusations that the intel was faulty is a lie.  And he will be proven wrong.... just like so many other "truths" out of the Administration have already been exposed as "untruths".

The Intell from the CIA/NSA/DIA/etc has ALWAYS contradicted the White House's WMD position. This will come out shortly.

The White House Stove piped and groomed the information they wanted Congress to see and the world to believe.

For example... The WMD mobile weapon lab CAD drawings which Powel showed to the UN as "THE" evidence of WMD - those were created at the White House by a White House AIDE! The story has already been debunked... now that they are starting to investigate the sources of the stories and asking why... the truth will come out as to who created them!

Here's a clue for you... They all originated from the White House.
The intell community does a very good job at keeping track of paper - you know reports sent to senior officials detailing what we know and why.

Now why would a senior White House official want to expose and ruin the cover of a CIA operative? You know the wife of former Embassador Wilson - Remember Embassador Wilson who refuted the White House's position on the Niger-Iraq Nuke connection - simply because it was a blatant and patent untruth. Even after the CIA sent a 55+ page memo no less than 4 times to the White House to inform them of this... and expressly told them not to give this story credit in the State of the Union address - yet Bush did any way?

Why would the White House (Americans) intentionally commit a felonly - against US national security interests?

Who knows! But they did. That's why they are being investigated by a special prosecutor.

Oh and there's more... so much more!
The truth will come out.

No worries...

It's not a leftist or liberal thing - or a we hate BUSH thing - like the small brains would think.

Time will tell and it'll be sooner rather than later

It sure will and it has already started.

There are patterns... unmistakeble patterns... if you just pay attention.

Is Bush just stupid and evil... no.
He's just not open about his agenda. No President or government ever is, and in this case... they can't be!

LOL

ya got it all figured out ..eh bud:cool:

[Torque]

Originally posted by Cerceuilvolant
I'm afraid that you'll have to get rid of a few allies:

Country Dictator Dates
Chile Gen. Augusto Pinochet 1973-1990
Argentina Gen. Jorge Rafael Videla 1976-1981
Indonesia Suharto 1965 coup against left-leaning Sukarno, 1975 support of East Timor genocide, etc.
Guatemala Armas, Fuentes, Montt 1954-
Iran The Shah of Iran
 Ayatollah Khomeini was on the CIA payroll in the 1970s in Paris
Egypt Sadat, Mubarak 1978-today
Iraq Saddam Hussein
Nicaragua Anastasio Somoza & sons 1937-1979
Paraguay Stroessner. US supported throughout (state.gov says US has supported Paraguayan development since 1942) ($142M between 1962 and 1975) 1954-1989
Bolivia Col. Hugo Banzer overthrew elected leftist president Juan Jose Torres 1970-
Angola Jonas Savimbi/UNITA (didn't actually win his revolution, but killed or displaced millions) 1975-1989
Zaire Mobutu  
Saudi Arabia Saud family  
Kuwait a monarchy  
Morocco  
Tunisia  
Algeria  
Jordan  
Panama Noriega was US-supported for years  
Haiti Papa Doc, Baby Doc  
Dominican Republic Belaguer 1965
Honduras  
El Salvador  1980s
Nepal monarchy since 1948
Cuba Fulgencio Batista pre-Castro
Brazil Gen. Branco overthrew elected president Goulart with US support  1965-67

Welcome to the United States of Hypocrisy the best foreign policy money can buy.

[Dowding]

Syria was brought on side by the British in the last couple of years. I think there have been genuine moves to slowly build friendly relations between the West and the country.

BTW, British and Australian SAS were covering the Western roads out of Iraq which lead to Syria, ostensibly to catch fleeing Iraqi hierarchy after invasion, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they didn't have some presence prior to the conflict.

The whole "well they moved it to Syria" argument just sounds desperate.