Author Topic: cant quite put it all to gether  (Read 2582 times)

Offline TweetyBird

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cant quite put it all to gether
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2004, 12:11:21 AM »
Thanks for posting those films , Humble. I'm getting a better idea of what threatening angles looke like. I notice on a few passes, you don't even look back right away. After looking at the films a few times, I guess it because you know there is no possible shot by the look of the plane as it passes by(i.e.., where there were a few options the attacker could take, none was an imediate threat). I can see this when on some passes, but of course not as much as what you veterans are seeing. I also like the way you went from an entergy disadvantage to a major entergy advantage  on the 190. No fireworks, but very instructive - thanks for posting them.

>>you think the answer is in understanding the small details when most of it lies in really understanding the big picture....<<

I believe this. The reason any plane is flown correctly is understanding the physics of whats going on. The thing is  remembering those physics in the heat of battle is hard :)
For example, I gripe about my gunnery all the time. Yet I can't tell you how many times I see myself firing in lag pursuit (whether lagging in the lift or off to the side) in the films. I know you can't hit a target in lag pursuit (on either axis), but its remembering this at the time. I guess if one makes a mental note to NEVER fire in lag pursuit his gunnery would have to get better.

Anyway, thats my goal this camp. To make sure corrections go from lead to pure, and never from lag to lead.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2004, 01:13:09 AM by TweetyBird »

Offline TweetyBird

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« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2004, 12:17:31 AM »
>>la7 was only good for its speed and its not "that" great of an aircraft<<

I suspect any aircraft 300 on your six is great. People joke about the pea shooter zeke, but its no joke on your 6.

Offline TweetyBird

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« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2004, 12:25:42 AM »
>>the la7 can out turn a spit 9 if you stall fight with it or cut the throttle and give it a quick notch of flaps .(ussually just the throttle is enough) <<

And if the spit9 goes into a climbing spiral? If I remember right, flaps just suck in a climbing spiral. I know if a la anything is turnfighting my spit, my nose is gonna be above the horizon. Is this wrong?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2004, 12:32:25 AM by TweetyBird »

Offline humble

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« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2004, 08:57:36 AM »
Tweety....

I noticed that I wasn't "looking at" the 190 either....I don't really have a good reason why...I certainly "know where he is" ... not sure if I was just lazy or somehow the views didnt capture right.

Glad the clips helped a little....I've got 1 I shot last night that I'm going to try and upload (site seems to be down this morning).

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline humble

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« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2004, 12:56:37 PM »
doolitle....

Here's one more clip for you...shot this one last night.

1st part is a pretty good attack profile for buff's in case you need it. @nd is the part that relates to the clips above...basically this is identical to the spitty clip...as I roll out from the buff's I've got a con closing in thru 2.1 on my 6...of course here I'm flying for "real"... so I'm dialed in for a guns solution...which I get...and miss arrgghhh $#%^&...anyway I track him down shortly but as I said gunnery is paramount in the MA...all kinds of bad things could of happened in the 15 sec extra it took...you'll notice my SA goes to pot and I "fish the nose" a bit to long looking for the shot...

All in all though it shows why the 1st three clips are so valuable...the 38 didnt really understand I was engaging to kill him...not avoid him. Once you truely begin visualize the right E fighting "profiles" then you really dont care where the other guy is...far as I'm concerned if there's only one of you your outnumbered regardless of relative position/E state.

Now you need to realize that 100+ other guys cruise around feeling exactly the same way:)...but that still leaves the other 3000+ fish in the sea:aok

http://www.azhacker.com/images/film101.ahf

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline doolitle

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so true humble...thanks for the constant flow of feedback
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2004, 02:15:33 PM »
you think the answer is in understanding the small details when most of it lies in really understanding the big picture



this is a very true statment <>...although had my ego been involved id be inclined to take offense:p ...lol...luckily some one told me to leave that(my ego) at the door for the first year or two..



all BS aside..i respect your honest responces and hope the many others i am soon to meet or as half as honest as you...

to you humble...

Offline doolitle

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"ye callin me a chisler???"..lol
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2004, 02:21:57 PM »
OK rosco....."we got buisness then"..meet ya in the TA...in cant wait:aok

Offline humble

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« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2004, 02:52:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>the la7 can out turn a spit 9 if you stall fight with it or cut the throttle and give it a quick notch of flaps .(ussually just the throttle is enough) <<

And if the spit9 goes into a climbing spiral? If I remember right, flaps just suck in a climbing spiral. I know if a la anything is turnfighting my spit, my nose is gonna be above the horizon. Is this wrong?


Tweety...the tough thing about ACM is that the "right move" today...will kill you tomorrow. There really are no absolutes...but...
The key is the relative combination of E and angles. As a rule the positive E "player" want's to maximize energy retention until he can covert it to angular advantage...the Neg E "player" wants to maximize angular advantage while minimizing E bleed....so if your the spitty you have less "potential E" than the la-7...but you can turn more efficently (you lose less E for the same result)...the question of nose up or not is dependent on angles and E at a given moment...if I'm in a spitty vs a lala I'm more concerend about the speed of the fight...a faster fight benifits the lala...if I can slow him down then I'll gain relative E if i'm forcing him to maintain moderate G loading...Ideally I'll fly the same "profiles" you've already seen...however the better sticks will counter early and you'll need to go to plan B. Rosco's right on with the spitty...basically your getting off the gas and going to "angles"...the lala has to respect the hizooka's and you'll eat up his E...or he'll give you a look...the key is avoiding letting the lala get over you...don't worry bout spiraling on him...dont let him do it to you.

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline kj714

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cant quite put it all to gether
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2004, 05:15:59 PM »
How long you been playing Doolittle?

Have you been to some of the resources on the net?

Heres my suggestions:

1.Try http://www.Netaces.org as a start

2. Read offensive and defensive tactics, pick a specific manouver from each and go to the MA determined to practice them. Once you have a good feel for them, pick another set and train on them.

3. After you've got some experience, re-read it all.

4. Warm up a little at a vacant field before heading into the fights.

5. ALWAYS film your flights & review.

6. Always constantly check your 6, ESPECIALLY when you are trying to get a gun solution on the nme, failure to do this is reason #1 noobs die a lot.

7. Spray n Pray, gunnery skills come along eventually

8. Learn how to barrel roll. Great manuever, useful in all kinds of situations.

9. Die a lot. For me, the learning curve to get to being a decent pilot was probably a month and a half of spending hours and hours glued to that keyboard.

10. Be patient. By learning manuevers, practicing them, reveiwing films, you'll start putting together some moves  and enjoying successes.

Good Luck!

Offline Soulyss

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« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2004, 06:15:41 PM »
Just to chime in here with a quick observation I made awhile back that really increased my understandings of fighting in AH.  Knowing the manuvers that have brought me success isn't enough, It was when I realized WHY they had worked that I saw an improvement in my abilities.  

Knowing that a hard break into a bandit bouncing you from high 6oc could set you up for a reversal is compeletly different than understanding why you can get that reversal.  You can then take that knowledge and apply it to many situations.  

Seems kinda obvious but this realization did wonders for me.  (Though I still manage to die more often than not it seems. :))
80th FS "Headhunters"
I blame mir.

Offline doolitle

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LOL
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2004, 06:28:04 PM »
thanks for the heads up soulyss.....<<>> preciate it

Offline humble

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« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2004, 06:29:27 PM »
Tweety...

Happened to have a high lala that wanted to molest my FM-2...kind of illustrates what I was talking about...once I sucked him in he couldn't extend (in his mind at least) and you'll notice I was gaining ground even though I'm in a much slower plane...partly since I'm flying the smaller "inside circle" but also since his plane is less efficient under moderate G's....opening is pure "book of Drex"...great article he wrote awhile back....i'm sure someone has the link.

http://www.azhacker.com/images/film7.ahf

Notice I was firing even though I didnt have him zeo'd in...just trying to keep him turning:)

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline humble

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« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2004, 06:30:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Soulyss
Just to chime in here with a quick observation I made awhile back that really increased my understandings of fighting in AH.  Knowing the manuvers that have brought me success isn't enough, It was when I realized WHY they had worked that I saw an improvement in my abilities.  

Knowing that a hard break into a bandit bouncing you from high 6oc could set you up for a reversal is compeletly different than understanding why you can get that reversal.  You can then take that knowledge and apply it to many situations.  

Seems kinda obvious but this realization did wonders for me.  (Though I still manage to die more often than not it seems. :))
Bingo....exactly how I feel...

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline TweetyBird

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« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2004, 06:52:06 PM »
Thanks again for the films. After watching the first film, I decided to take an f6f up offline just to see how it flew. I was absolutely amazed at its guns. Why does it seem to aim so easy? I know it carries a large ammo load, but the act of putting the the bullet stream on the target seems a lot easier than it does in a spit. Well after that I started trying different models offline just to see how the guns felt. I noticed the Niki also seems to aim almost as easy. Is there something about the guns in those two planes that make them easier to use? I checked out the convergences, and it they were similar to other planes (e.g., F4U-d). Yet while hitting something 500 out in an f4ud was hard (and damn near impossible for me in a FW-A8), it was quite easy in the f6f and niki. Why would certain guns be easier?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2004, 06:56:33 PM by TweetyBird »

Offline humble

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« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2004, 07:32:27 PM »
The F6 D hog and Jug are all "chopamatic"...the pony is a bit tougher for me. Personally I hate the ballistics (and everything else) for the nikki...but many others love em. Personally the F6F is probably the most versital (sp?) plane in the game. The 205 is a better performer but the vis issues even things out...specially as bad as MA is now.

La-5 still the deadliest plane in the game.

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson