Super Spit strikes again!

[eddiek]

hhhmmmmm.........mx22 started out sounding kinda smart....then blew it with his "landing gear won't go down over 200 IAS".....Corsair landing gear would deploy up to 300IAS.....they were strong enough to be used as a speed brake.  Suggest you go the TA and practice what you preach.  
The Spit pilot told me he was also diving straight down, so he was not cutting any corners.  And if you "read" the original post, you will see that I did get the speed up, I did use aileron rolls, and it did not work!
I fly the P47 almost exclusively, and the Spit is the only plane that gives me trouble on a consistent basis.  
Have also flown the Spit, did some things in it that ought to be impossible, such as merging with a co-alt F4U, looping all the way over ( and not an "easy" or "lazy" one either....almost totally blacked out on the maneuver) and found myself 800+ yards behind the Corsair....and closing on him too!  
This thread was not intended to be a "whine", it was meant to garner feedback and see if anyone else is seeing the planes do remarkable things like that.    
As an afterthought, mx22, please reread the post?
I clearly gave the speeds as both pilots saw them.  You say the Spit rolls poorly at around 500 due to aileron stiffness.  Maybe so, but I was watching my speed as I intended to use that against the Spit driver.  
My airspeed indicator said 550+, his said 440-480, yet he was dead on my six, not taking a pursuit angle to cut me off, and still closing.  Likely a bug in the programming, but it is disheartening to find out that there was that big a difference in indicated speeds.    

[This message has been edited by eddiek (edited 08-21-2000).]

[Citabria]

I have suspected for a long time discrepencies in individual aircraft airspeed indicators in AH.

call it a hunch but I would be interested to see a side by side comparison of different aircraft flying side by side

will their airspeeds say the same thing?

what if they don't?

hopefully I'm wrong

[mx22]

OK I admit I might be wrong about the landing on F4U, I simply don't fly it.

In regards of Spit, I told you you don't roll enough. Spit compresses at a much higher speed, but it becomes impossible to roll at high speeds too. Go and try both planes in MA. Better go and try catching any rolling P-47 in dive. If pilot knows what he's doing and not simply diving to the ground, you won't be able to kill him unless you'll put some lead into him before he rolls away from you.

mx22

[Baddawg]

Yawn sorry Eddiek, but this is the same ole same ole .In my 6 years in flight sims these same issues always arise.
Its never the pilots fault always the sims
 Its never a Situational Awareness error  its always the flight modeling
 Never does a pilot consider even in the remotest neuron in his brain, that he made a miscalculation in the enemys energy state.

I fly the P47 alot and spits  are not anymore dangerous than any other plane in the arena that YOU let fly to its strengths.

That holds true for each and every plane in this game.

This week the spit is the public  enemy. Next week  a pilot might run into a good group of N1K pilots then the campaign  for squash the uber N1K starts,then the 190 ect ect ect.

Its getting old

I find i can kill every plane in this game in my P47 I also find I can get killed by every plane in this game in my P47.
And when I die its not the sims fault  or the fact my six never got called. Nor is it  my teams fault,planes fault  bullets fault,clouds fault,runways fault ,acks fault or wingmans fault, the blame is easy to pinpoint and it points to myself.
 

[Exile]

 

Originally posted by eddiek:
My airspeed indicator said 550+, his said 440-480, yet he was dead on my six, not taking a pursuit angle to cut me off, and still closing.  Likely a bug in the programming, but it is disheartening to find out that there was that big a difference in indicated speeds.    

[This message has been edited by eddiek (edited 08-21-2000).]

Aren't the speeds in a Spit shown as Kilometers Per Hour and not Miles Per Hour? If so, that would mean there was very large error here as 550mph is approx. 885kph.

[Spatula]

 

Originally posted by Baddawg:
Yawn sorry Eddiek, but this is the same ole same ole .In my 6 years in flight sims these same issues always arise.
Its never the pilots fault always the sims
 Its never a Situational Awareness error  its always the flight modeling
 Never does a pilot consider even in the remotest neuron in his brain, that he made a miscalculation in the enemys energy state.

I fly the P47 alot and spits  are not anymore dangerous than any other plane in the arena that YOU let fly to its strengths.

That holds true for each and every plane in this game.

This week the spit is the public  enemy. Next week  a pilot might run into a good group of N1K pilots then the campaign  for squash the uber N1K starts,then the 190 ect ect ect.

Its getting old

I find i can kill every plane in this game in my P47 I also find I can get killed by every plane in this game in my P47.
And when I die its not the sims fault  or the fact my six never got called. Nor is it  my teams fault,planes fault  bullets fault,clouds fault,runways fault ,acks fault or wingmans fault, the blame is easy to pinpoint and it points to myself.
 

Amen, well said.  

Spat.

[Karnak]

Spit's airspeed is in mph.

But was he reading his indicated or true airspeed and which were you reading?

Sisu
-Karnak

[eddiek]

Let's see.........at 500 feet above the ground, how much difference you gonna see in TAS vs IAS?  Not much if any.
Baddawg, you might be right.  Maybe I did misjudge his E state......but not likely when we talked immediately afterwards and compared notes.  
Put 2 objects in a line, set them on a straight course, have the forward one travel at 550 knots, the rear one at 480 knots, and tell me, will the rear object gain ground on the front object?
Admittedly, I am NOT the best pilot in the game, not even in the upper 100, but like Citabria, I wonder why the huge difference in speeds the pilots were seeing?
At what speed "should" I have began rolling?  Tell me, let me practice it and see if it helps.
After 6 years in the online sims, I am sure you have seen a lot of stuff happening.  But have you ever considered that maybe people could be right, and the programming off just a tad?
Are not HT and Pyro looking into the P51 FM, and did they not find a flaw that was causing the wings to shear when they should not?
Feel free to flame all you want......but helpful tips would be more useful.

[Karnak]

500ft above ground, how high was the ground above sea level?

Sisu
-Karnak

[mx22]

Karnak,

This is a dead argument. Guy made a wrong decision and now everyone and everything is wrong.

mx22

[wolf37]

hi all:

one point not mentioned here yet.
who had the better comp, better FR, and so on, i some times find that to be a factor, maybe i'm wrong.




------------------
wolf37
C.O.
THUNDER BIRDS

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Karnak:
Odd, if Spits are so easy, why did this newbie, Spitfire fan (me) have to switch to 109s to improve my performance?

An example of Spit vs. 109 performance:
On Sunday I flew a single mission before my network crased and denied me Internet access.  I took a Spit IX up for a spin, bounce a F4U-1C and made a mistake so he got away.  If I'd been flying my usual Bf190G-10 that F4U would've never gotten away, mistake or no.  Could I have gotten him in the Spitfire?  Yes.  The 109 just gives me more room to make mistakes and come out on top.  The more room an aircraft gives to make mistakes and still survive or win, the better that aircraft is for newbies.  As far as I can tell, the best newbie aircraft is the Bf109G-10.

Bf109G-10 = Easy Mode

You LW fans/anti-Spit folks have way too high an opinion of yourselves.  The "I fly a 109, so I'm taking a handicap.  That my K/D ratio is this good just means I'm one of the best" attitude is a bunch of bull-honky.  You take one of the best fighters in the game and then go on and on about how great you are for taking such a piece of crap up against those horribly overmodeled P-51s and Spitfires.

How come the Spitfire is so overmodeled in every sim that was ever made?  190s and 109s should be able to swat them out of the sky without any difficulty at all, yet they keep making it so its about an even fight.  Why?

Sisu
-Karnak

Karnak this thing is really a double post from the one you put up on the aircraft forum. So I'll give you the EXACT answer I gave you:

(Posted by RAM in Aircraft and Vehicles Forum):


Tour1 : (when I had the one button joke....err...yoke, no rudder pedals and problems to take off as I was a hopeless dweeb)

Query results:


 ram has 70 kills and has been killed 75 times in the Spitfire Mk IX

(total K/D rate on ALL planes in Tour1: 0.55aprox...you get the idea)
---------------------------------
Tour2 : (still no rudder pedals,still with yoke, still a dweebish newbie)
Query results:


 ram has 65 kills and has been killed 61 times in the Spitfire Mk IX.

(K/D on all planes 1.024, boosted because JG2's teamwork   , as you see is in my average, and I was only a dweeb)
---------------------------------
Tour3: (got rudder pedals in the start of it and changed definitively to german planeset with some P51 and P38 too):

Query results:


 ram has 10 kills and has been killed 14 times in the Spitfire Mk IX.

 (K/D ratio in tour3:1.474, rudders made me go up a lot    )
 
I recall most of those kills happened same night in base defence. got killed 8 times in a row by the 101 ECV vulching    
---------------------------------

From there onwards:
Tour4: 2kills 0 deaths
Tour5: 1Kill  0 deaths
Tour6: 0kill 0 deaths
Tour7: 0kill 0 deaths.

Total K/D in SpitIX for RAM in all tours:
148kills/150 deaths.

Counting that I flew it when I had no damned idea on how to up from a field and did not know anything about realistic way of flying (this is my first online sim and there is nothing in box sims that is near this),no damned rudders, and a sin of joke, I think it is more than a good K/D ratio,indeed

SpitfireIX is a wonderful plane. In tour1,while I had a 0.5K/D ratio in general, in SpitIX I was near 1. And I was a hopeless dweeb.

I am sure that If I take now a spitIX on a hole tour I'll raise a K/D over 3.5, (now I am at 2.2 and I am quite happy to be true). But I wont do it. I dont like the spitfire as plane and I wont get into one to have a boring time to proof anything.

Ball's on your side, Karnak. Maybe is not the plane...  

[RAM]

BTW When I say that EZmode in AH is represented by SpitfireIX, I assume that you are willing to engage when you see a con, unless there is hopeless odds against you:

Scores on KarnaK:

Kills per sortie: 0.5, Rank 458
Kills per time:  0.007, Rank 511

G10 is the best plane for running. For sure you know to run. Do you know to fight ,karnak? Or you do a bounce or two and run away?.

I remember a night when SpitfireV was just up, in v1.1, defending F20 in the old map.

 I kept F20 defended ALONE agaisnt 6 or 7 people of the Pony Express   (hang was at that time in that squad).

 I had a lot of sorties and fights and only died once, when I got surrounded by 6 cons after killing hang's C47   .

 I did,too,a sortie where I did kill 5 P51s on my own with no help,( I got bounced by ALL at the same time,not one by one), and managed to make hang's P51 to ditch. 6 on one and I won.

I had no rudder pedals still, and I still was a true newbie.I call THAT EZmode. Try that in a G10 and you'll find your skull burned and with a nasty 50cal hole in the middle of it.

Now dont tell me you cant survive in a BnZ environment with a SpitfireIX. With a V is tougher, and I did it when I was a inutil dweeb (With a bunch of luck that is true,too).

This is not intended to be an offensive post,Karnak, I simply say that you seem to pick your fights very carefully on G10...a plane were you have 3 kills 3 deaths...for sure not an EZmode plane, isnt it?



[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-21-2000).]

[Dnil]

Quick tip if anyone is interested.

DO NOT DIVE STRAIGHT DOWN.  Dive about 30 to 45 degrees if your running.  Your 47 will easily start to outdistance the spit, gotta be patient though.

p.s.  I am curious to maybe an indicater bug.  Its been off on some planes before.  Maybe Cit is on the right track.

------------------
Dnil---Skyhawk until I get Dnil back
Maj. 900th Bloody Jaguars
Part time aircraft restorer. www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer

[Karnak]

RAM,
I fight until dead, or low on fuel and ammo.  I do not run in a perfectly good airplane.  The G-10 simply allows me to climb out of a fight before nosing back in.  The Spit stays in the fight, with the aircraft on its tail and dies.  Every time I've tried to BnZ in a Spit, my target simply climbs after me and kills me.

It so happens that I do much better in a Bf109G-10 than a Spitfire MkIX.  As I'm not very good, according to your theory (and every other LWs theory) I should rack up the kills in the Spit and get slaughtered in the G-10.  The fact is that I last longer, get more shots on the enemy and, occasionally, return to base in a G-10.  I've NEVER landed a non-German fighter.  Every one of my sorties that is listed as a landed was in either a G-10 or A-5.

Tonight I flew 5 sorties and was sot down five times.  I flew 3 Spitfire MkIXs, 1 N1K2 and 1 Bf109G-10.  Total firing time with the Spitfires was less than 1 second.  Total with the NiK2 was 0.0000, not a shot.  Total with the Bf109G-10 was about 15 seconds.  I got some hits, but no kills.

My personal experience says that the Bf109G-10 is WAY easier than the Spitfire.  Your experience obviously is different.

About the running thing.  The time you shot me down you will note that I was not running.  I shot down 3 bandits and was credited with a 4th that crashed near me before you got me.

If the Spitfire MkIX was THAT good in AH, why doesn't everbody fly Spits and nothing but.  The Only Spitfires I saw tonight were the ones that I was sitting in.  The planes defending 27 were F4Us, P-38s, B-26s, 109s and 190s.

I'm sick of the anti-Spit fanatics.

RAM, let me put it this way.  I'm a Spit fan, but I can't do crap with it in AH.  I do alright in a Bf109G-10, a plane I've never been a fan of.  Yet despite this, you don't see me whining about the Spit being nerfed or the things that always blow me away when I'm flying a Spit being overmodeled.  Yes, I've asked for a newer Spit because I'd like to fly a Spit that I could do alright in.  You've told me what you think of that.  Fine.  But your descriptions of what the Spitfire MkIX does that it couldn't in reality, as well as other peoples descriptions of the same, is sheer BS.

You really think the Spit bit so badly that the Fw out performed it in every way?  Thats what your proposed "fixes" would have it do.

You accuse the Yanks of not wanting a challenge and so being nay sayers about the D-9, yet you LWs are the biggest nay sayers of all.  You constantly whine about the "poor" performance of every German aircraft and the "great" performance of every allied aircraft.  To hear you guys talk, you'd wonder how the Allies ever stood a chance.

Sisu
-Karnak

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 08-21-2000).]