Bad ol Bush

[texace]

It looks like Congress wants our boys to be fighting with spoons and half a golf ball...

At least it seems that way...

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by 10Bears
I applaud your new bleeding heart liberal stance that we should care for and look after all the poor peoples in the world, however, I take the older Republican view that it’s in America’s best interest to not get heavily involved with other countries internal affairs or civil wars as it tends to complicate things even more. Particularly the middle east where there seems to be a major lack of understanding of culture and norms.

[/b]
That is not the republican view. Nor is it the American view. At least not in the mid east-gulf region. Lets see if you can figure out why that is.

 What you see as Saddams transgressions are mild in comparison to other countries in the same region.

[/b]
Oh really? Using poison gas on civilians in your own country is mild in comparison to other countries in the same region? Go ahead then, and list the atrocities you feel are worse than that.

For example, under Iraqi law, where hands chopped off for stealing a piece of fruit?.. Was there public beheadings?.. Were women forced to wear burkas or be stoned to death for adultery?..

That is horrible to western eyes but this is exactly what will happen if you allow western style Democracy in this country. This fella, Al Santini is demanding direct elections only once. He is of a mind to bring Islamic law to Iraq which will do nothing, nothing-- to stabilize a platform in which to do business. And THAT my friend, is America’s bottom line.

[/b]
Heh, you have a very odd image of western style democracy. See the problem is that you forget to include the basic human rights in that little theory of yours. Cant have a western style democracy without western style basic protection for some key human rights.

The idea that we would be so callous, so unforsightful to allow our troops to stand guard and be shot down like pigs in a plough to scrimp on double armor on humves and trucks, to scrimp on personal body armor, ----makes me physically sick.. I break down emotionally and cry at this lack of foresight.    And you call this supporting the troops?

Geez, look at the drama queen.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Pongo
Iraq did pay the palistinians to blow up Isrealis. But the US doenst call the palistinains terrorsts so that is not a link to terror.  

(Just catching up on this thread.)

Huh? Most in the US recognize people that blow themselves to bits killing women and children to further their political cause as terrorists. The Palestinians that do this qualify for this label and I'd wager that at least 95% of americans consider these actions to be terrorist.

You think the US is doing nothing about this? One thing we did was show the entire Middle East what happens to despot national leaders that support this sort of activity. Do you think this message hasn't been received? The only thing that will weaken it is if we lose our resolve to continue exerting the pressure needed to convince these folks that we aren't an easy target and that the cost of killing us will be more than they can bear.

There are those that will never believe any war or aggressive military action is ever justified. At least a war that affects them directly or comes close to home. If they prevail the US will be lucky to be even a third world country within 50 years.

Maslo, ignorant or arrogant? Take your pick, your opinion matters little to me.

[slimm50]

Originally posted by Yeager
There was simply no basis for the invasion of Iraq
====
Is just plan redikulus, comrade.

How many times did our government say that all Saddam had to do was provide some kind of documentation that biological weapons, chemicals, etc that was known to have been in their arsenal had been destroyed, and we wouldn't attack? More than once, as I remember it. And yet, Saddam's regime never offered one shred of evidence or documentation, other than to say "we're innocent" (paraphrase). Most people seem to have forgotten how SH thumbed his nose at the UN resolutions for 12 years.

[Rude]

Originally posted by Pongo
There was simply no basis for the invasion of Iraq except blatent US aggression. Accept it.

You can accept your own silliness....best to get over it....we'll do it again if we feel it's necessary.

It's fine to disagree....incessant complaining is not very becoming nor productive.

[Rude]

Originally posted by Fishu
Good luck with your national security!
Theres a dozen far more dangerous nations to your security and a bunch of lesser evils.

Interestingly this smaller threat is somehow taking priorioty over these dozen others...

Anyway, this threat to national security which your forces are occupying, has caused more losses than a few regular kind of terrorist attacks.

I'd be rather interested to see the total casualty figures from Iraq, including the wounded, which usually tends to be a bigger number than KIAs.
Especially the ones with permanent damage.

Ahhh...the simple minded speak again.

This action speaks loudly to others....to assume the US has no active foreign policy regarding NK, Iran and others is silly of you.

Your best hope is Kerry in the White House....he'll suck your hind titty and make you feel good while others in the world will build up and attack us again....then this righteous indignation of yours will pale to reality and the coming US response.

To act now is the answer....you might enjoy seeing us get ours with a mushroom cloud over Manhattan, but you won't enjoy the US response I assure you.

[Rude]

Originally posted by 10Bears
Okay I have a question,

This is pointed at Mr. Black but anyone can answer.
Why is it conventional wisdom  that Saddam needed to be removed from power?

Reason I ask is who is going to hold back the religious fundamentalists now? Wouldn’t a better solution had been to lift sanctions and resume the business of doing business thereby strengthening business partnerships making it un-desirous for Saddam to attack?. This has been our policy with communist China for more than 10 years now and seems to me to be a win-win situation for both our countries.

Gosh! that sounds so Republican of me. Why are you guys not acting like Republicans?

Resume relationships so that you could throw it back in the face of our President for doing business with the likes of a murderer....I think we tried that....didn't work.

Sometimes issues are black and white....of course that shouts in the face of the left who prefer the milky middle ground which allows for the anything goes, it's my right, free speech kinda thingies eh?

[Rude]

Originally posted by Pongo
Rip
He presented no proof or evidence, what is there to refute?

Iraq did pay the palistinians to blow up Isrealis. But the US doenst call the palistinains terrorsts so that is not a link to terror. If the Palistinians were terrorsts certainly under the speech given and quoted by Bush the US would be hunting them down. Not negotiating with them and trying to get Isreal to give the terrorists what they want?
So that is not a valid link to terror is it...

The rest of the post is babble. If after 2.5 years of the war on terror that is what counts as proof enough to invade a country and kill 1000s of people then things are sad indeed.

In what must be the world record for double think,Rude even has the weakness of mind and moral to present evidence of Bushes stated ambition to ivade Iraq and his pathetic (but successfull) attempts to link Iraq with 9/11 as evidence of some kind of proof that the invasion of Iraq was warrented. As if evidence that bush announced he would invade Iraq 2 years before "the evidence" made him do it is some kind of glowing redemption of his actions and not a concrete proof that he was not interested in the slightest in really hunting down terrorists but in sowing fear to enable him to do what he wanted with the US military.

So Rip. All I say is what does justification or proof have to do with it. Your country has paid for the capability to take over other countries and your president lies just enought to pacify th 40% of the vote he needs to stay in power.

If any other country in the world or in history waged war on such rediculous excuses you and Rude and the "conservative" crowd here would not accept it for one second.

You hope there is some fact that will emerge to justify the unjustifiable. You have had Iraq to yourselves for nearly a year.
Had thousands of US operatives there to find some justification for the invasion. Any.
Yet this pathetic list of "testamony" from ex Iraqis that had to buy thier way with the CIA is your evidence, Gut feelings.
Are you not the least bit suspicios Rip that after so long in posession of the country your coutnry has found nothing?
Imagine if the US found no evidence of Nazism in germany by mid 1946.

So no I dont accept Rudes list as justification of the invasion of Iraq.  Easy to justify an invasion of Saudi Arabia. But Jr is not about to do that.

Easy to justify an invasion of Saudi Arabia. But Jr is not about to do that.

and why wouldn't Jr. do that?

[AKIron]

No one likes being deceived, even me. Do I believe or at least suspect I was misled about Iraq? Maybe.

Do I believe that much of the middle east is a hotbed of anti-american sentiment? Definitely.

Would that hatred go away if we hadn't invaded Iraq? Of course not.

Are most middle eastern leaders now much more wary of the US? Certainly.

Would they have embraced us and forgotten their hate if we had discovered large caches of WMD in Iraq? Ridiculous to think so. I'd go so far as to say they fear us even more because we acted on suspicion alone. If we can't make them love or respect us, fear will do.