Author Topic: canadian professors gun study...large cut/paste.. (Read 5148 times)

ra · « **Reply #30 on:** February 19, 2004, 09:00:06 PM »

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The US is screwed, you've gone past the point of no return with guns.

When did this happen?

vorticon · « **Reply #31 on:** February 19, 2004, 09:00:35 PM »

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Originally posted by Sox62
And how do you propose to limit "more powerful guns"?And if you you did,what would stop criminals from illegally obtaining them,while law abiding citizens would be restricted to lesser calibers?

I'm about to buy a carry gun,and it will be at least a.40 cal...I really don't care what the criminal has.Trust me,if I hit him,he'll go down.

nothing would stop them from obtaining it illegally but it would be more expensive harder to get at and if a cop saw the gun on him he'd be arrested in the blink of an eye.

yeah sure thats if you hit him...remember a criminal ALWAYS has the advantage of having his gun already pulled and will be watching for someone to go for there gun...

NUKE · « **Reply #32 on:** February 19, 2004, 09:01:32 PM »

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Originally posted by Vulcan
Oh lazs you're so full ****. Gun laws in countries outside the US of Cowboys do NOT increase occurances of violent crimes. Violent crimes have been increasing due to other factors, socio-economic, ethnic, immigration based stuff. If anything gun laws in these countries have kept the guns out of the hands of angry people, potentially saving lives.

The US is screwed, you've gone past the point of no return with guns. I live in a country where I have no need to arm myself, don't mind the gun laws being strict, and don't want to declare indepence in my back yard.

Heres a question for you: How do you feel when you are unarmed?

I'll bet Laz is unarmed about 99% of the time and feels perfectly safe being so.

Sox62 · « **Reply #33 on:** February 19, 2004, 09:15:31 PM »

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Originally posted by vorticon
yeah sure thats if you hit him...

I would.I wonder how many criminals actually have any range time.

Your scenario is the guy already has a gun pointed at you point blank.Having a weapon under that scenario would do NO ONE any good,citizen,policeman,etc.

Vulcan · « **Reply #34 on:** February 19, 2004, 10:01:29 PM »

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Originally posted by ra
When did this happen?

When you booted the english out.

vorticon · « **Reply #35 on:** February 19, 2004, 11:13:21 PM »

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Originally posted by Sox62
I would.I wonder how many criminals actually have any range time.

Your scenario is the guy already has a gun pointed at you point blank.Having a weapon under that scenario would do NO ONE any good,citizen,policeman,etc.

never said anything about point blank...im talking a guy walks into a store pulls a gun at the till...if theres anyone in the store and they make a move to pull there gun the criminal will shoot him...by limiting more powerfull guns hes not going to feel so sure that hes gonna do enough damage if someone does pull there gun...

there lack of range time makes it even more important that they DONT get a more powerfull gun...if he does a poor shot with a powerfull gun he'll do more damage than a less powerfull one...and if his gun is a semi/auto then hes gonna be able to shoot again real quick...

oh and if they ban any handgun more powerfull than the powerfullest most common then fewer people will be affected...and those who do have a more powerfull gun provided they have a clean record can apply for an exception provided they have a reasonably good cause (as in reasonably high violent crime rate in area etc.)

im not bothered by shotgun/rifles for obvious reasons

Sox62 · « **Reply #36 on:** February 20, 2004, 12:47:29 AM »

If I'm in that store and he's paying attention to the storeowner,his day is ruined.

Not sarcasm or insult intended,but do you own a gun?Or actually spend time at a range?

Or let me ask this,what what you define as "too powerful a gun"?Please educate me.

vorticon · « **Reply #37 on:** February 20, 2004, 01:07:20 AM »

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Originally posted by Sox62
If I'm in that store and he's paying attention to the storeowner,his day is ruined.

Or let me ask this,what what you define as "too powerful a gun"?Please educate me.

he'd be a pretty crappy robber if he wasnt paying attention to everyone around him...then again if you go into a store when theres other people in there your crappy in the first place...most people dont want to be on either end of a hostage situation...of course if you do get a chance to shoot him do it...

to powerfull a gun...well since im not very well versed in guns i'll make a analogy...

hunting knife = powerfullest common gun
long sword = ak47/m16
too powerfull = everything from a long sword to a well made bowieknife...

stuff between hunting knife and bowie knife would be available provided just cause

what the anaolgy leaves us with is a very common weapon that can still be used if someone comes in with a bowie knife provided they do it right...and if anyone shows up with something better than bowie knife they they really mean business and your best bet is to get the hell outta there as soon as you spot the danger...or if its spotted to late merely keep quite and do what they say (of course if they give you a opening take it...)

AVRO1 · « **Reply #38 on:** February 20, 2004, 06:14:31 AM »

The Cranberries come from a town where guns are illegal.
People use knives instead.
It as a nickname because knives are used in crimes a lot.
If someone is violent with guns, he will also be without.

But I agree with Vort, man I would love carrying a longsword.
No one with a knife would even consider attacking me.

I don't want the Canadian gov to legalize owning of military weapons that is for sure.
Handguns are fine and so are hunting rifles and shotguns.
If you need full auto to defend yourself, you got some serious issues (Gangs).

Carrying a concealed handgun might be going to far though.
In some places in the US it probably is a good idea, but here in Canada I am not sure it would be.
But the gun registration as got to go fast.

lazs2 · « **Reply #39 on:** February 20, 2004, 09:45:59 AM »

vulcan... paint it any way you want but in the countrys that had some citizen firearms rights... when the rights are strengthened the crime goes down... when the rights are trampled on the crime goes up. crooks love an unarmed populace... I am not able to have access to a firearm about half waking time. I am fortunate in that I am large enough and scarred up enough and still young enough that the scum won't take a chance in most places... In places that I will be in high risk and outnumbered I figure... better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. to answer your question tho.. I feel somewhat vulnerable in bad areas when I am unarmed. I try to avoid these situations.

vort... not singling you out but you voice a lot of the misconceptions that I hear and that are being propogated by the women in the media so I answer you... Maybe "most" people are saying that powerful guns cause crooks to get "cocky" and commit crimes... they say what they want but the numbers don't bear them out.. When more ciizens are armed the crooks are decidely less "cocky". That old man or woman looks a lot less vulnerable to a crook if he is wondering if that hip bulge might be one of John Brownings excellent designs eh?

At the same time... no type of specific caliber or type weapon ban has ever done any good. More powerful, less powerful.. 10- round or 14 round magazines... no difference

What does make a difference (besides aloowing more concealed carry) is when you enforce stiffer penalties for crimes where guns are used. This makes the average lowlife less likely to be armed and at the same time get's the real psycos off the street longer when they do use a firearm.

lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #40 on:** February 20, 2004, 09:49:01 AM »

firearms are not evil and they don't make people do things. In impolite societies or societies that have an impolite element that is large... they reduce crime dramaticly... in polite societies they have little effect one way or the other.

No reason anyone should be deprived of his right to defend himself.

I would not be a part of a society that felt they had the right to decide if I could defend myself or not.

lazs

vorticon · « **Reply #41 on:** February 20, 2004, 11:24:27 AM »

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Originally posted by lazs2

vort... not singling you out but you voice a lot of the misconceptions that I hear and that are being propogated by the women in the media so I answer you... Maybe "most" people are saying that powerful guns cause crooks to get "cocky" and commit crimes... they say what they want but the numbers don't bear them out.. When more ciizens are armed the crooks are decidely less "cocky". That old man or woman looks a lot less vulnerable to a crook if he is wondering if that hip bulge might be one of John Brownings excellent designs eh?

More powerful, less powerful.. 10- round or 14 round magazines... no difference

What does make a difference (besides aloowing more concealed carry) is when you enforce stiffer penalties for crimes where guns are used. This makes the average lowlife less likely to be armed and at the same time get's the real psycos off the street longer when they do use a firearm.
lazs

1. yes when citizens are armed crooks are less cocky...but if the crooks are much better armed than the citizens then the citizens being armed wont make much difference...to use a aces high analogy the gun laws make sure that the guy spray and praying at d600+ is using .50s not 20mm hizookas...and your armed also with .50s...

2. exactly my point...in a citizens case size doesnt matter...but by making it harder for the average lowlife to get armed with a semi or full automatic weapon the average citizen has a much greater chance of being able to adequatly defend himself without carrying a big semi or full automatic weapon themselves...

3. agreed...as i have said before i merely want it so that thewhen they do use a gun its not a full or semi auto.

LePaul · « **Reply #42 on:** February 20, 2004, 12:11:16 PM »

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Originally posted by weaselsan
Maybe the anti-gun experts can explain this statistic

Gun crimes California 2000-2002 166,284

Gun crimes Maine 2000-2002 1,100

I can add up the gun crimes in over 20 states before I equal the number in California?????

LOL...I'm flattered you chose my state to use your example...but its a flawed example.

We have a strong, sportsman history and lifestyle. 99% of what we are shooting at is deer, birds, etc...we do have a huge percentage of guns per square mile (cant find the link/stat..its impressive).

We also dont have the urbania of California..nor the gangs, minorities and many other variables.

SirLoin · « **Reply #43 on:** February 20, 2004, 01:20:16 PM »

The Fraser Institute is crackpot right wing think tank...Sorta like Canada's answer to The John Birch Society...They even wrote "The Common Sense Revolution" which was the Ontario Conservative government's platform the last 8 years..It didn't work,ended Premeir resigning in the middle of scandels and resulted in thier conservative party getting booted outta power with the largest LIBERAL majority government in our province's history...Seems like common sense (privatising health care/Hydro Power,tax breaks to wealthy and corporations,voting huge pay increases for politicians while sticking it to welfare moms) isn't very popular up here.

lazs2 · « **Reply #44 on:** February 20, 2004, 02:23:21 PM »

sirloin... perhaps the institute is a crackpot one as you say.. I don't know anything about it but... the paper is accurate.

vort... There is no escalation of firepower as you claim. what really happens is that crooks use whatever if easily concealed or whatever they can get their hands on. ... I would much rater he have a 9mm auto and hold it sideways than a .357 mag revolver or a single action cowboy gun ruger vaquero in 44 magnum.

With revolvers... back when they were standard... the average gunfite lasted 2.7 rounds. Now it is about 7 or 8 depending on what study you read. In police shootings or non gang related shootings the chance of someone being hit by stray rounds is small. Gang shootings and drivebys which are a copy of much older gang shootings, often cause people to be injured by stray bullets.. the gangbangers fire a lot of bullets from a lot of guns into very densly populated ghetto environments... people all over the place and cardboard houses. best to not hang out in ghettos.

lazs